A Generative Dialogue Around The World Of Talent Development

I am gonna welcome three amazing individuals, uh, people I highly look up to. I definitely, you know, these are some of the individuals I call up and I want to pick their minds. And whenever I'm trying to navigate something in this space, uh, you know, I'm calling Troy. I am calling Jody, and I'm calling Megan and being like, okay, what are you seeing? How are you doing this right now? And this is a great opportunity to, for you to actually do that as well. So if you have questions, if you have things that are top of mind, uh, put your questions in the chat, put 'em in the q and a. Uh, ideally I spend the least amount of talking during this panel discussion, and we just really pick their minds and leveraged their insights for this conversation. So let's jump right into it. I'm going to welcome Troy, uh, regional senior HR business partner for McKesson. Jody Sensei, HR Director of Primary, and Megan Galloway, founder and leadership futurist at Ever Leader. These are three amazing individuals you wanna listen to. So let's bring you to the stage with me. Troy, welcome. Good to see you, my man. Megan, welcome. Oh, Troy, we can't, we can't hear you. It doesn't seem the sound's coming through. Megan. Hello. Welcome. Hey, How's it going? It's going great. Great, great. All right, Jody, welcome. Hello, welcome with us, Troy. I see you're connecting to audio, so we'll let that come through here for a second. Uh, again, everyone feel free to ask questions, but really appreciate the three of you, uh, one joining our community, volunteering your time, and sharing your expertise with, with all of us. I'm really excited for this discussion to unpack, you know, many of the things that we've already started talking about. Um, but for starters, let's just jump right into the discussion. Um, you know, I'll, uh, uh, Troy, I'll give you a second as you connect here. So, Megan, I'll start with you. Would you mind just like introducing yourself a little bit, provide a quick context on who you are, but then really just jumping right into it. Like, in a nutshell, how do you start to see or believe this leadership development, talent development space has been evolving and, and what does that look like from your perspective? Yeah, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here with you all today. Um, I'm Megan Galloway. I'm based outta Kansas City, but I'm in, uh, Omaha, Nebraska. Today, I'm in a guest office in, at Bellevue University. Um, but I am founder of a company called Ever Leader. We're boutique leadership development agency. Previous to that, I spent 10 years building learning and development programs from the ground up internally at organizations, and then was on the, um, executive team at a, uh, venture backed startup that worked in the leadership development space as well. So, spent a lot of time, uh, and worked with a lot of different organizations. And I'd say the number one thing that I'm seeing right now is I think that talent development and leadership development has really evolved in the last, I'd say, five years in particular. Like, I think the pandemic triggered a lot of the change that's been happening, but hr, talent development, learning and development has become increasingly more strategic as a business function. And I think that one of the things that's most exciting to me is the amount of value add that we see from an ROI perspective, people truly starting to grasp how important it is to have these types of functions inside of our businesses. And, um, I would say like even just the, the trends that we've seen in folks wanting to transition into this industry from other spaces, like education is a really cool trend that we're starting to see right now and really validating the work that we're doing here. So I think there's, there's a lot of things shifting and changing, and I think we're closer to the business and the, like, tangible results of the business than we've ever been before. Yeah, I, I can't agree more. And, and I really love that theme as well. I know so many of my teacher friends have moved into this profession, but then I also love how leadership development is evolving away from just being like this HR departments thing that they're doing. And now everyone's like starting to contribute to the development of the other people around them and, and themselves in many ways. So it's really exciting things to see. So, Jody, welcome. Thank you so Much. Thank you. So excited to be here too. Yeah. Um, share a little bit about yourself, but yeah, what have, what have you been seeing, especially internally at primary, you know, how has that been evolving or what are you starting to see in this whole changing leadership talent development landscape? Sure. So my name is Jody Sensi. I'm the director of HR for Primary Kids. My pronouns are she, her, I'm a white woman in my thirties with short, reddish brown hair and blue glasses, and I'm wearing a blue top and blue green and red necklace. Uh, so at primary, up until about two weeks ago, I have been an HR team of one. Um, so truly doing a little bit of everything for anyone who's done the HR team of one, like all of the hats off because it's, uh, it is truly a thing to behold. Um, you know, I think one of the biggest changes that I've been seeing over the last couple of years, and I was so excited that Kristen really kicked things off talking about this, was this kind of wrapping our arms around the idea that development is no longer linear. There is no reason for it to be, and we don't have to try to force ourselves into linear models that just haven't made sense for a lot of people. And so this idea of thinking about development as more of a lattice instead of a ladder has been something that having those conversations with my managers and just watching the light bulbs go off when I say those words and watching them get excited about new possibilities that, you know, just even cross-functional, um, projects that presenting that all of these skills that they can develop that are going to fully enhance someone instead of just thinking, how do I get them to have a senior in front of their name, I think has really given people a lot of creativity that they were looking for for development. Yeah. First of all, who else here put in the chat? Are you a HR team of one? Like seriously, you're a rock star and a superstar. I know Kristen talked a little bit about that too. You're kind of forced of, of being both of those things. And, and Jody applaud you for, for all of that, and I appreciate you reaffirming that whole, how do we change the development, like conversation or strategy from this, like linear discussion or view to this more, um, evolutionary thing, right? And, and Rick even brought up a really cool term of like, let's focus on career portfolios versus career paths, right? Like, and really open up to how people can build their career portfolio that can go many different directions with many different experiences and, and focuses versus this like, yeah. Linear path. So that's definitely been a theme today so far. Um, all right. Troy, are you with us gonna, can we hear? I'm hoping, I'm hoping so. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I, I, I'm, I'm actually working from two devices. It's like I totally ignored the prompt that, uh, uh, that I would be joining as a, as a, as an attendee. So I apologize for the double screen there. No, you're okay. We, we we're here together now. Glad you're able to be connected, uh, excited to learn from you as well. So, Troy, yeah. Would you mind introducing yourself, maybe telling a little bit about yourself, the work you're doing, but then, yeah, what are you starting to kind of feel and see in this whole leadership development talent development landscape? Sure, sure. And, and again, um, you know, as a, as, as a leader, you know, for an organization, I, I support field operations primarily, uh, non-exempt populations. But it's those leaders, uh, that I support, uh, that, that have direct connections to those individuals below them. And so there's really a focus on making sure that we're bringing on talent, uh, that can really demonstrate, you know, when I, when I think back to some of the things that Heather shared, we really want to get into those, uh, uh, those behaviors we want to get into, uh, developing a will, really developing that confidence to do a little bit more, uh, in their organizations. And because, uh, from a McKesson standpoint, we really look at the development of self so that you can develop others. And so that's really what I'm looking to bring to the conversation and, and also glean from my fellow panelists as well. Yeah. Could we actually dig into that right away? Troy, I'd love for you to expand on, you know, when, when you and I were even talking, we talked about like employee driven career planning and utilizing different types of self-assessments or just developmental conversations to transform this conversation and really support employee engagement and development and some of those things. Um, yeah. Could you talk a little bit about that? Certainly. And, and so, you know, we, when I think it's, it's really important and within our organization, what we try to implore on our people, that it is a two-way street. And I know there was some conversations that were had a little bit earlier around those self-assessments. And I really think it's really, uh, important to go beyond just what aspirations are, what are you capable of, what have you delivered on? And I know we, we've target what's referred to as an act model, uh, where we look at aspirations, but we also look at, uh, what your competencies and capabilities are, what track record, and what results have you delivered? And I think, you know, once you move past that, you really look at understanding what those capabilities are that's done, uh, through reviewing some critical experiences. What is it that you have done? What is it that, that you would like to do that can really build out across those three e that everyone is familiar with, experience, exposure, and education. And so when you really look at that self-assessment, uh, analyze and, and critique yourself around those experiences, you can develop then a, uh, uh, an IDP or more. So a career development plan is how we refer to it internally. And that plan is going to look at those three a's match them with our leadership behaviors. Uh, I lead is how we refer to those. Uh, and then make sure that you have the right people in the boat, first being your, uh, your manager, but then also those, uh, other leaders across functions, uh, within projects that can, uh, provide you that 70% growth that comes from advanced experiences, differentiated experiences, uh, so again, that you can balance yourself against, uh, where you are now, your peers and where it is you want to go. Yeah. Put that acronym in the chat too. Act I think again, that kind of lines too with what some of really, Heather was reinforcing as well. I, I appreciate that. Focus on like, let's make sure we're including capabilities. Let's also take a look at track record. I think sometimes it's really easy just to get set on that aspirational note, which is valuable and important, but, uh, how do we incorporate like that more holistic view and act is, is such a easy, uh, acronym right. Act on development. I love that. That's easy. Um, all right, Jody, you also shared like employee driven career planning, development planning as a, a focus of yours at primary. And I believe you even mentioned there's cer certain, like even easy like resources you've developed to enable that. Could you share a little bit of what that looks like? Yeah, so when I joined, I was also the first, like in addition to being a team of one, I was also the first dedicated HR hire. So for a lot of managers, they just hadn't really been having any kind of conversations about their teams at all. And one of the things that I was initially hearing people ask for is that they wanted these career paths for people. And I kept hearing it, and I just, I knew that what they were saying wasn't exactly like what they were needing. They, they were asking for something, but what they were really getting at is, I don't know how to develop people and I don't know what we're looking for for somebody at the next level. So one of the kind of quick things that I did to turn that conversation into a little bit of a different direction that didn't require making career paths for all of these different roles in a way that just wouldn't have made any sense was if so and so person on your team left and you got permission to backfill one level higher than where they are currently now, what are the skills? What are the activities? What are the attributes that you would be looking for in a new hire that this person doesn't currently have and they're your development opportunities? And just by being able to frame it that way, it immediately turned it into an individualized tool that managers could start to think about for their own teams. And then I was able to put out, um, exactly what Troy was talking about, these individual development plans or, you know, everybody has different names for them. And then managers could just kind of naturally have these conversations knowing what they were looking for in their team, and then being able to match that up with what employees were looking for. Yeah. And to even like simplify, like it looked almost like it was a document, right, that you shared with team man managers, right. That they could use and just reference to navigate those discussions. Yeah. I had a document for employees that they could use to guide those conversations, and then also a document for managers to kind of help them think through the process of what would a job at the next level look like? That's great, first, I love that too. And for UHR leaders out there that are alone, one person's shot maybe don't have a huge budget to invest into, like these incredible tools that maybe automate some of those things right off the bat for you, like, that can be really hard to stand up and execute that reference what Jody kind of just talked about, like how do we take really simple approaches to build enablement resources that people can leverage and just start building that momentum, building that culture and that conversation that people can have, and then that will make it much easier to make a bigger lift implementation of something down the road after you foster that type of culture. Right? Um, so I love that simplicity that you've really encouraged there as well. So Megan, I know you're working on like a lot of different things with, with this space, and I think even with individual career planning and development planning, right? We wanna, uh, use this as an engagement performance, you know, strategy, but then there's also like this need or desire to make sure things really align with the values of the organization and the culture. And like, how do we develop people in a way that align with those cultural elements that we're trying to reinforce and build? Um, could you share a little bit of how, you know, our HR leaders or organization may start to look at that, or how do they incorporate values and culture into these plans? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, one of the things that I'll say, like, Jody, as you were talking about the plans that you're putting together that I absolutely love is how like tactical and real that is for someone to go utilize. And I do think that happens a lot. Like I talk to a lot of folks who, they have managers who are promoted from like an ic, individual contributor level, and they get into a managerial position and they have no idea how to do the skills like in the, the duties of being a people manager versus being like really great at their technical job. So one of the things that I love that you're doing is you're creating a really distinct culture and expectation around these are the types of conversations that you should be having with your team members, and here's a real tool that you can use for that. And I think a lot of times inside of our organizations, it's really hard for us to connect our, like values, our stated values, like whatever's on the wall or our websites or whatever with like, our actual tools that we're giving to our, our frontline managers, or even like the actual behaviors of our senior leaders inside of our organizations. So one of the things that I think is, that I've seen work really well is creating like a culture operating guide for people to understand, like when we're in certain situations around our values, like let's say one of our values is having open openness inside of our organization. So one of the things is we wanna be open about career development paths. It's like, here's the behaviors that are expected inside of these conversations. Here's the real tools that you can use, and here's how frequently that's expected of you as an ic, as a manager, as an executive leader, and what those behaviors should look like. So that we take like the guessing game out of that for people, and they have a real example of what they can use to make our values come into real life. So I love those culture operating guides for that reason. 'cause it's basically like, here's ways in which we think about these things acting out in our real day-to-day situations when we're faced with real challenges inside of our business that are, that are ever changing. I think that's so powerful, especially if you don't take that next step to like clarify how it actually lives within these different moments. It's really hard to grasp or con connect, like, okay, how do I actually act in this moment of challenge, right? Especially when the pressure's on it's tendency human behavior, we, we kind of feel go back to what's natural. So if it's new behaviors that we're trying to reinforce, we had to really guide them so that they don't snap into old older behaviors and things like that. So, um, all right. We got a question that came in the q and a. I love this question from Sheila. Thank you so much for asking this. And Megan, since you're kind of on the mic right now, I'll hand it to you and then Troy and Jody, I'd love for you to expand and jump in. But Sheila asked, right, like, we love this discussion around, uh, you know, getting away from linear growth to a more lattice type of growth. And, um, the challenges though, a lot of our professional development op opportunities or ideas usually revolve around employees becoming leaders, right? Like going into these people, people leader positions. But what about those employees, like Kristen was talking about, who are rock stars? They don't wanna be superstars. Like they're, they're in their rockstar position, they don't necessarily want to become a manager, but development's still important. So what is like professional development look like when it's not geared towards that and it's more geared towards our rockstar people who don't wanna be managers? Yeah, this is such a great question, and I think this comes up so much as well because Gen Z and millennials are like infamous for this right now, right? Of like wanting to work in a job for a year and then get promoted and then get promoted again. And like they, they see the promotion as like the actual career development, whereas in reality, the career development comes from a lot of other places inside of our businesses, right? And so it's really interesting, becoming a manager is not necessarily the next step in everyone's career path. Like there's a lot of people that are really great at sales, for example, and they're not meant to be a sales manager. That's like a, a very like prime example here. And so one of the things that I think is super helpful and interesting is defining what career development looks like inside of your organizations. Like there are so many incredible stretch opportunities, networking opportunities, things that you can do inside of your company that look different than just like a promotion. And even more than that, I think that part of it is in our org design. Like if that's how everyone moves, then everyone gets developed is by moving up the ladder, then that's what people are going to expect. But when we start glorifying as well being an incredible like individual contributor that's growing inside of that position, and managers are recognized not just as player coaches, but they're recognized as great managers of people, then that also changes the conversation a lot as well. Love that. Yeah. Troy, Jody, anything you're seeing of how you're starting to like look at that at your organizations or how organizations can maybe support development beyond just leadership opportunities? Certainly. And one that comes to mind for me, Zach, is, is actually a, uh, connections cohort that we've hosted here now going into our fourth, uh, cohort court fourth year. And, and so with that cohort, we just had an example of what Megan just described. We had someone that had moved so quickly in their career, become a people leader now going through the cohort and working on a, a, a business case, uh, a project specifically for the cohort that was going to then lead into something more. And, you know, she saw the value of, of being an individual contributor and then contributing to results more so than just people leading because people leading had become her focus, uh, as she accelerated within her career. And she actually asked for an opportunity to maybe switch roles to get that added exposure. And so, you know, you know, when, when we look at that example and look at what Megan just laid out, I think it's very important that we continue to build connections. Uh, this is what I thought about when Rick was speaking a little earlier. Build connections, build those capabilities, build that confidence in order to be then positioned for that next opportunity. How can you do that? That can often be done through, uh, special projects working off the side of your desk. I know we have a big push within our organization around, uh, employee resource and business resource groups where you're going to, again, make those connections, gain that added exposure, because then that's when you then find those, uh, those mentors, of course, those sponsors. And I think there's a sweet spot in between the two where you find those advocates. Those are the ones that are gonna speak on your behalf when you're not in the room, and then they're gonna let you know about it because, and they're gonna let you know that they wanna see you move to the next level, just like we're invested in this young lady to be able to rewind the clock, if you will, to move back into a, uh, uh, uh, individual contributing role. I love that. And, and Jody, I'm, I'm gonna go to you for a second, but one of the first things that came to mind when Megan was kinda sharing her perspective and then now hearing you was yeah, like project opportunities, like those not, not necessarily are programs where you need to be in a higher level position to get access to, right? And, and these are actually things like, okay, you get to still stay in your role, but we're exposing you to other, uh, opportunities to develop yourself and work on challenging projects outside of your scope of work that maybe that individual's looking for, right? So, um, I love that creative idea and cohorts we're definitely gonna come back to that as well. Megan, we've talked extensively about cohort experiences, but, um, Jody, you wanna, you know, share and jump in here as well. Yeah. I'll just add another resource that I created last year was a promotion recommendation form, which, and the first question, it's for managers who think that they might have somebody on their team ready for a promotion. The first question is that question that I've started asking managers pretty much every time we talk, which is to have them think about if you were hiring this role just blank for one level up, what would that look like? What are the things that would be ads compared to where the person is today? Um, and then it asks for examples of how this person is already demonstrating this opportunities that they need to continue to develop and just ask them to put all of that thought into it. And then, um, we've started doing talent calibrations now, um, which is basically just an opportunity to look at the promotion recommendation forms. Um, we, we don't use ratings during, um, reviews. We don't have kind of those considerations that we look at anymore, but it's, it's an opportunity for us to look at the people who, um, are kind of up for consideration and have had managers now advocating for them kind of through this form. Um, and I think one of the things that was really cool to see in this second round that we've used them, um, was the number of rock stars promoted because it just gives visibility into their work in a new way that was being overlooked before. And there were a couple people coming up where the initial reaction was, well, what is next for them? And it's like, don't worry, I already had the manager think about that. And when you can just see that right in front of you, it was so apparent that this person is ready for a promotion. Yeah, I think that clarity is so important as well, because sometimes I think the, the reflex for rock stars within our company is like, let's keep 'em there, right? Like, they're such a rockstar, uh, at this role. We, we don't wanna lose that contribution to that specific role, but that might not be what's best for that individual, right? And now you're actually dis disengaging a rockstar, which is one of the things you definitely do not wanna do, do, right? Because they're so valuable to the company. So how do we find more clarity into the people that we have and at an individual level? And then as you kind of guided, right, how does that lead to these different pathways or opportunities that can keep them engaged and performing? So, um, now Jody, uh, while, while we're on you as well, I think one of the things that we've also talked about how to unlock development behind beyond just like leadership development opportunities is like leveraging peer learning communities and different experiences beyond, you know, these like learning cohorts and groups. I know that's something big at primary or something that you've been working quite a bit. Can you share some examples or initiatives on what that looks like for you? Yeah, and I, I don't think it's a coincidence how many of us have been talking about like resource scarcity and like HR budgets lagging behind and all of these things. So a lot of this was born of necessity. It was, you have $0 ed, you have no help, but we also want learning and development, so like, how do we get creative and how do we create opportunities that already kind of exist? So we started adding more opportunities into things like monthly all hands meetings where employees can present, we call it a day in the life, and they just talk about like, special projects they're working on, um, in certain teams, especially like in customer service. Um, during, um, less peak times, we're creating opportunities for people to work cross-functionally and get the perspectives of customer insights directly from the source and get the customer service team exposure to different parts of the business. So we were just kind of able to like plug some holes that way. And then, um, one program that I did start last year was Lunch and learns, which I know a lot of companies do. Easy way to get some peer learning by just kind of getting people to sign up to present on topics that they feel they are good at. Um, you know, as again, team of one, I was like, let's kind of deputize other people to like, help be teachers and trainers and all of these things. Um, unfortunately, I think one of the other problems with resource constraints, you know, there wasn't as much time for people to do that. I ended up doing a lot of them. So I kind of had to reiterate on that again. Um, especially after last summer, I developed pretty severe fibromyalgia. And so for a couple months I was working a very limited schedule, so I was like a team of one half. And so I was like, no, we definitely need to be working smarter. So I thought, how do I make this Lunch and learn program kind of work in a new way? And I reached out to a few people that either, um, one of them is a vendor that primary currently works with. Um, one is a recruiter who used to run the l and d program at a company I've worked with in the past, and just ask them like, do you wanna come to primaries lunch and learns? And then pretty naturally they're like, oh, do you want me to present one too? And like, just like that, not only have we increased the number of people who are getting to learn, it's, you know, just in this first iteration, three trainings for the $0 price of one. Um, and so that's definitely something that I am really excited to potentially expand to mentoring to, Yeah. A quick plug. Jody and I have been brainstorming on like, how do we invite more companies to participate in that, where it's like, how do you, you know, create access to the learning opportunities, but also spread the workload around from a facilitation standpoint and, uh, budget standpoint to bring in trainers potentially and things like that. So, uh, really interesting idea and concept and I'm excited to kind of see where you run with it. Jody, um, Megan, I know, uh, one, uh, Jody kind of just touched on some of like the multimodal learning approaches, right? And kind of, okay, we're gonna bring a trainer in from here, we're gonna leverage some in-house people. I'm gonna do some things. Um, so I would love for you to expand on the power of that, but then I know you and I have also talked quite a bit about cohorts and coaching circles and things like that. So it's kind of a two-pronged question here, but I would love your thoughts. Yeah, so multimodal learning approaches, like if you're building out, like, let's say a, a frontline manager, training multimodal means that you're using lots of different modalities to help reinforce, introduce and reinforce different topics. So, um, for example, you might have some drip content that goes to the beginning. You might have a lunch and learn like Jody was mentioning, and then maybe you have a coaching circle on the back end. So you're using different modalities to help reinforce content that it makes it more real for people inside of their day-to-day jobs. So I see more and more people moving towards this approach for lots of different reasons, including budgets, because I do think that it's not just like a standard, let's take this thing off the shelf and plug and play it, it makes it more real for our organizations, and it typically is more budget friendly as well. So, um, one of the things that I do love in there is doing cohorted approaches, particularly inside of leadership development. Um, I love doing that, uh, in particular with what I call coaching circles. So instead of every person having a one on one coach, which would be dreamworld, but in reality, a lot of folks can't afford to have one-on-one coaches for every single one of their managers. And so instead what you can do is you can have what's called coaching circles. And so let's say that our session was about giving and receiving feedback, what you can do is you can create a conversation guide, and then a couple of weeks after this session is over, if you've given them, like at the end of the session, an on-the-job challenge to go take, uh, you know, something and maybe go receive feedback, ask for feedback in their one-on-ones with their team members. Now you have a coaching circle that's already set up for a group of these folks. It can be led by people like inside of the co of the cohort themselves. So you don't even have to have like a master facilitator or a coach that's there, but you give them a guide for how they're supposed to lead, lead these coaching sessions so that way they're creating space for people to talk to each other, other about how it's really going inside of the job. Because I think so many times our leadership development is super theory based, which is great, but it's hard to actually apply that in our day to day when we are like actually receiving feedback from someone and they're telling us like, you made this mistake as a leader, and here's how it impacted me. It's hard to then be in that real situation and take that feedback. So it's a great way to give people support and connect your culture, particularly in remote and hybrid environments for little to no cost. Yeah, and it's, it's, I love that it's having like amplified effect, right? Like deeper relationships between the team members internally, which is something that a lot of people are looking for right now. Deeper connection and relationships with their peers that they work with. And you can do that cross-functional as well, which is another incredible value doing skill development, but then you're also putting it into action, right? So it's like there's all these different values that come with these coaching circles and these peer learning communities by implementing. So I, if you're not doing that already, I mean that's gonna be a part of our next section here that we're gonna get into in a second. But, um, I know we're coming up on time, so I would love to kind of bring together all three of us and kind of wrap up some top of mind thoughts, especially as we look into the future. And we have a ton of HR departments of one in the room right now. We got a ton of L and d leaders who are trying to stand up new things and, and get people bought in. And, uh, Troy, I, I'll maybe I'll start with you, um, and then, and then Megan, Jody. But, uh, as we look into the future, like what is some advice you would offer to organizations who are really trying to aim and enhance this piece of their business? Like what are some one or two pieces of advice you would close up with? Yeah, I, I actually want to go back to, you know, what Heather actually shared a little bit earlier around, uh, potential. You know, performance is a prerequisite for potential. And I know when you're really looking to differentiate between people, you really need to understand, uh, potential performance, uh, and then also tie those things to your behaviors. And that's really where we try to focus, uh, from a performance calibration differentiation perspective. Because I think, uh, if you understand that that is what gets you in the door, that's what's even going to get you on that succession, uh, um, uh, template. You really have to know what it is in order to, to navigate to the next level. And so I think it's very important, uh, uh, to, to understand what your career development journey's gonna look like. Uh, you know, where you want to, uh, go to. Uh, I think it's also important to understand what your short-term, uh, uh, goal, short-term role may look like, what that destination role looks like. And then tie those things to, uh, what you do and how you do it. And then once you, uh, have that in play and you have that demonstrated track record, uh, there's, there's no doubt that you'll be able to get to the next level. That's great. That's great. Share Troy's information in the chat too. Connect with them always sharing great guidance on LinkedIn. I love following his, his posts and whatnot. Um, so I really appreciate that, Troy and also Troy, I'm coming back to Atlanta soon. We're doing another exchange there, so I expect to see you. Uh, but yeah, greatly appreciate it. All right. Megan, what about you? What advice, what things would we want to give leaders who are, are really trying to leave today's program and start taking action? Yeah, I would say you can do really small things that have big impacts. So you don't need to build an entire new leadership development program or overhaul the one that you have to make significant change. Like look at the biggest problem areas. Maybe one-on-ones could be better utilized inside of this format. And drip one-on-one questions that to your managers that they can start utilizing to get to know their team better, where they wanna go in their careers or make better connections, um, or, you know, just find small ways to make big impacts. I don't even think they necessarily need lots of time spent or budget dollars associated with them. So there's lots of great opportunities to, to make small changes that make big impacts. Yeah, Leah and I agree. Amen to small changes. Let's go. Uh, I think like as a, as a, as a, as a goal for all of us is like, rather than thinking of this like monumental huge l and d thing, you're trying to stand up. Like maybe how do we just start creating momentum? Like how do we just start, get the, the ball rolling in the smallest ways that can have a much amplified effect over time. So what is the smallest way to build momentum? Small changes. I love that, Megan. Thank you. All right, Jody, you wanna take us home? What kind of advice? I obviously like you're a person of one, right? And there's so many things, like where did you start? What advice do you have? Um, You know, I'm gonna say don't be afraid to be really creative. Um, I think obviously amongst hr, we all understand how much the world of HR has changed since Covid, but I don't think that a lot of people outside of under, uh, outside of HR kind of understand the transformation that's really gone on. And so I think a lot of the things that were true for our roles even five years ago just aren't anymore. And so don't be afraid to rewrite the rules a little bit and to do things that work in a way that works best for your organization. I like that. I mean, that's a chief engagement model, right? Like, let's rethink the ways that we're doing this. And I think you were probably hired to also change things up, right? Like you probably had a level of expertise and insight that the organization wants to tap into. So do your thing, right? Like tap into that, be a little creative, you know, shake the tree a little bit and, and let's try to have some fun with it. So first off, thank you so much to the three of you, everyone attending. Can we give like some virtual love to these three amazing leaders, uh, in the chat and emojis? Yes. Thank you so much. Really appreciate all of you spending some time with our community and it is just so great to have you here with us.

‍