Building Mentorship Mastery: Strategies for Impactful Mentor-Mentee Relationships

Can we all give like a, a huge welcome for Janice for joining our community, but I love the hearts and emojis coming in. Yes, thank you everyone. I love when that happens. Uh, Janice, I know I, I was able to provide some context on who you are, some of your background and experience, but as we kind of get into this discussion and also some unpacking some of the concepts from the book and your experience as a founder and entrepreneur, uh, can you share a little bit about that journey or can you share about a little bit about the book, your journey and how you got to this point and, and what people can expect or include in that? So my journey has been far from traditional, um, I started as a corporate graphic designer, um, as Zach mentioned, and was really frustrated by the mentorship programs that I experienced in especially the co defense contracting space. Oftentimes, I was just matched based on superficial factors such as age, race, and gender, when I knew mentorship is one of the most important relationships you can have. And for it to really be effective, you need to take it multiple levels deeper into who you are, how you connect with people, what's important to you, and finding people who will actually get you and celebrate that, and then find ways to map that to your career goals. And I never quite found that in corporate mentorship. And so I ended up creating a software, as we talked about before, that matched people to mentors inside where they worked at, customers at Amazon, department of Education and others. And, um, a lot of great findings through those experiences. And we had an incredible opportunity, um, for the mentor method to then be acquired September of . But I felt that my work wasn't quite done. There was just a little bit more I wanted to say about mentorship. And I had never planned on writing a book because I'm still so involved in mentorship and helping people build fulfilling careers. But when Wiley, one of the top business book publishers in the world reached out to me with an opportunity to write a book on mentorship, I knew this was the way that I could get the insights, get the guidance out there much faster than one-to-one relationships because I get a lot of messages and dms and everything else from very ambitious people who are hungry for mentorship. They want that support. They want to know where to find those mentors. They want to know the types of mentors they should have. And so this book streamlines the process that I used across my career for the last years to build out my board of mentors and how I've changed them time and time again depending on what my goals are, but to really help the audience feel like I am a part of their board of mentors in setting up the process, helping them feel confident, helping them understand, just as the title says, the science and art of setting yourself up for success. Because the more you can put a process behind it, um, the less mental energy you spend trying to figure out, okay, wait, what's the next step? What do I do now? It's a simple step by step process that by the end, you'll have an impactful board of mentors and you can run this process multiple times over throughout your career. So consider me your career companion, especially for those people that get a copy of the book after this. I love that. I'm excited, I'm excited to have you as my, you know, mentor, companion for this next hour. 'cause I, I have so many questions and I would, I would love to, um, even start unpacking even some of those elements of like your board of mentorship. Like I've never even heard of that. And, and I remember talking to some of my peers about like, is mentorship a paid thing? Like do you need to pay for someone to be your mentor? Is it only in your career at your company? Is it, um, you know, how does this work? Does it have to be a formal plan that's set up every week? You know, like, what is this mentor relationship? I would be curious in the chat too, for everyone listening, especially if you said no, and I'm looking for a mentor, I'd be curious, what part of this are you struggling with? Is it finding one, is it solidifying that relationship? Is it maintaining it or what to do after someone's like, yeah, I'll be your mentor. Is it that formal? You know, I'd be curious in the chat, what are your specific challenges with mentorship that you would like us to unpack a little bit here? Um, so yeah, one, Janice, let's start to maybe jump into some of that and just maybe the power of mentorship. And I thought one thing that was really powerful as you're sharing your story right there a little bit more as well, was you're asked to do a book that you weren't comfortable with and you're writing a book about mentorship while needing mentorship about how to write a book and develop this. Um, overall just like the power of mentorship or the role, like what is it about why mentorship is so critical today or why is it so important in today's environment? Today's environment, I don't want to jinx it, but it is unparalleled. We have so many competing factors right now. We are still recovering from what we've lost during the pandemic, getting some things back, learning some things that we didn't want. Companies are in this tug of war. Some companies are in tug of war with their employees trying to get them back into the office after we just finally learned the exact process for working from home. You have the Gen Z population and recent graduates that have never had to go into an office. They've been working full-time for at least the last couple of years and are now learning, you know, the water cooler culture and learning how to actually make these connections in person for the first time, despite having two or three years of professional experience under their belt. Which is something that a lot of us on this call have not actually had that experience. We kind of learned as we went through that office experience. You also have sizable layoffs, especially in the tech industry. You know, those have not slowed down in the least bit. And so there are a lot of competing factors right now, but the underlying component that hasn't changed despite the uncertainty and despite the changing in the climate, is the need for human connection that will always remain a cornerstone in how you relate to work and how you relate to yourself and how you view the important work that you're doing. And mentorship plays a big piece in that, especially if you're lost or not quite sure where to go. Mentors are critical in helping you understand their path, their lived experiences to help you build out your own roadmap for your own success. So let's say you are an HR leader, you've been in the space for years, and you're starting to feel like you're ready to expand into exploring CHR role roles or really wanting to make sure that you are mapping your career to A-C-H-R-O role in the near future. If you, if you are not already there, a mentor can really help you understand the day-to-day, how to negotiate. They can broaden your network so that you have more career options and you're able to potentially find new employment faster, maybe get promoted inside your company by understanding the lay of the land for that promotional process. And oftentimes studies have shown that you can get promoted five times faster through the help of a mentor than without. And mentors are promoted six times faster than people who aren't mentoring because when it's done right, it works. I mean, I'm living proof of it. I'm first generation American. Um, my parents immigrated from the Congo in the seventies through college scholarships from missionaries. And it was a big deal for me to just get a job in America, you know, that had benefits and, um, just a standard nine to five back in . So the concept of networking and the concept of building your board of mentors was something that I kind of had to learn along the way through several, you know, bumps and bruises, but it doesn't actually have to be that complicated. And I find that the right mentors will help you navigate those landmines so much more effectively. And I've certainly benefited from it and I know everybody on this call can too. Wow. One, that's an incredible journey and yeah, talk about a whole nother generation of development that you've taken your family through with the power of mentorship by your side, right? And, and I think about my own life experience of like, a lot of times I, I found myself falling into these mentorship relationships out of luck because I just ended up on a team or an organization that had a leader that cared about it. And my progression, like you talked about the likelihood of becoming promoted or all past that happens. I mean, my progression in that organization like accelerated because of having that relationship in, in place and happening and whatnot. And I, I think about that, that value of navigating the unknown or navigating situations you haven't had experienced in before, uh, that relationship of, of a mentor can really help, you know, guide you on doing that and provide you more confidence and empowerment into actually taking bold and courageous actions into these new ventures or new scenarios that you normally wouldn't without maybe that relationship. Um, and then that connection piece, I really appreciate you kind of highlighting too. I didn't really think about the connection as maybe a core element here, but, um, yeah, so important, right? Like having some relationship in that form. It is obviously a connection epidemic going on right now in the world of work. So how do you build those deeper relationships? And when we did give it a Gen Z report earlier this year, mentorship and connection were like the top two driving themes that that generation is looking for from their organization. So this is such a powerful strategic, uh, I guess action you can take for engagement, productivity and all those things with that, with your people. Absolutely. And to your point, um, % of the mentor relationships that have been reported on did happen organically. Meaning similar to your case, maybe it was a manager who was really passionate about mentorship or someone inside the company took you under their wing and it just happened naturally. But that tends to be less so for marginalized communities and for especially women and people of color. Um, when it's already kind of an uphill climb for visibility or placement on high profile, um, teams or projects, the ability to get that mentorship from MedStar partner becomes a lot harder. Or if you are looking at pattern matching, which I do not recommend in mentorship, but if you are, um, interested in having, let's say, um, a woman mentor who is in the c-suite of an organization, the higher and higher you get in terms of executive leadership, oftentimes the less diverse that board of executive leadership becomes. And so if you are following that logic, let's say you have a thousand junior level women identifying and employees who are vying for the mentorship from this one person who somehow broke through all of the broken rungs, broke through all of the ceilings has made it to the top that leaves thousands of people without mentorship if we follow that logic. So for me, I'm always thinking about that % where mentorship isn't an organic thing like me, where I had to really build out a process, figure out where I could find the people who would want to mentor me and just take me under their wing because my community at work just wasn't necessarily the most inclusive culture where mentorship for someone who looked like me was going to be readily available. Yeah, I love that. Can we unpack maybe some of those misconceptions a little bit? Like, all right, so I've even had conversations with my peers individually where I mentioned like, oh, I'm dealing with this, you know, situation in our business right now. I just called up and, and engaged with one of my mentors to help me navigate this, this situation because they have experience in this and it's very informal. So sometimes I've, I've noticed where, um, maybe the the conception of like a mentorship relationship, it has to be this formalized plan. But then now I'm also hearing you say where, uh, that informal relationship really only happens for a small percentage of people and it actually requires maybe a formal strategy to make sure you know that rest of that percentage of of your population, your, your, your organization is receiving that mentorship. So what are maybe some of the misconceptions or, or different types of, um, yeah, confusions around mentorship that you've encountered that maybe us as individuals should be aware of, but also organizations need to be aware of, like the informal formal piece you just spoke about. Um, I think most people think of mentorship as just someone more senior in terms of, um, time in a position mentoring somebody with less career experience. But that's not always the case. I think that's the general bucket for traditional mentorship. But mentorship can take multiple forms to your point. Sometimes it's more formalized and inside a corporate structure where there's a clear start and end date for a program, people apply, they're selected, and then that's the start of the program in that mentor relationship. But for other people it's something informal like texting their mentor on the side when they have a question. And there's no wrong way to go about it. It's really about what works for both parties involved, if it even has to be one per a one-to-one relationship. So mentorship can take a few forms. You have traditional mentorship, which is what we're discussing predominantly today. You have, um, reverse mentorship, which is somebody with less tenure mentoring, somebody more experienced that could be an associate mentoring a partner on the latest technologies to help them streamline their efficiencies. Um, you have group mentorship, which is where kind of like a thought leadership working group. Um, and then you have peer-to-peer mentorship, which is extremely important in your career development, getting mentored by somebody one to two positions ahead of you that has this acute understanding of the way that you work today because they were just in your position not too long ago. So I think a big myth there that, um, I'm seeking to unpack is just that traditional mentorship is the only form of mentorship one can have. Um, I think another myth is relying on the veneer and shininess of someone's LinkedIn profile to qualify them as a verified mentor. I have met certain people who have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers across their socials, and they are not necessarily the best fit for mentorship because they didn't have time, they didn't want to mentor, um, there was a values misalignment or they just weren't the right fit. So I always tell people age, race, gender, number of followers, their title, um, how cool you think the company that they're working for. If those things don't actually matter, you want to look at the character of the individual. Do they come from a servant leadership in a giving headspace? Do they believe that the rising tide lifts all boats or are they more of an individualistic I need to, you know, take care of myself first and then maybe there's room for somebody else on the boat that's not gonna be the best fit for mentorship. Um, from a values alignment, think about what you value. Think about, um, you know, your own relationship to work. If you were the type of person that loves to work remotely so that you can be in Portugal for a month in the summer while working, but your mentor is the type that says first one in last one out is the one who gets promoted, you have a different alignment in terms of the view of your relationship to work. And it might be a little bit harder to start navigating your goals when the lens in which you're viewing it is just so contrast from each other. Um, other myths for mentorship, I actually have a whole chapter on these mentorship myths, um, in the book. Chapter three starts with that. But, um, I think those are the big ones. Thinking about the superficiality of it, how cool you think that person might be, and then thinking that mentorship can only be a one-to-one relationship where it's somebody significantly beyond your current career set mentoring you. Wow. I, well one, I appreciate that such an in-depth answer there and kind of context of these different things. 'cause I've always kind of seen, yeah, it's more of maybe a one-to-one or the traditional route of, uh, maybe it's entry level employees with senior leadership, right? Yeah. And that's kind of the model and um, talk about how much you're missing out on as an organization if you're only leveraging or embracing that type of model or relationship, right? Like that peer-to-peer element. And also it reminds me of some organizations I've seen who maybe embrace more of the, the, like the the bottom up relationship mentorship relationship where they almost have these shadow boards or boards that are driven by, um, certain employees at different levels of the organization that oversee as a board to the executive team and they're mentoring and, and providing guidance that way too. And, um, I think that's, that could be so powerful. And then, uh, some of the elements that you were talking about and um, just the perception that stern leaders can have as who they are and how they can be a valuable mentor. And, and I think about those experiences where maybe all of us in, in, in the chat here and attending, maybe you've had this experience where you've met and engaged with someone that you highly looked up to because they provide this certain personal brand, but then you finally do and you're like, oh, that wasn't what I expected. You know, like, so I I think about those scenarios of like, oh, I was so excited to connect with them. They met a mentor to me through their research or their, you know, content and then you meet them and you wanna develop a relationship with them and the values aren't aligned at all. Right. Or, or some of the other things that play such an important role into a mentor relationship. Right, Exactly. I would also say, just adding on one more that's actually really important, um, I have seen in my time digging into mentorship as much as I have for the last decade, that sometimes people put a lot of pressure on their mentor to be the one savior for all of their career questions and concerns. And that's just not realistic. One mentor cannot solve every single career problem. And that's why I recommend diversifying your board of mentors so that you're not just dependent on this one person to solve everything. One, that's just an unrealistic expectation. The same way you have multiple friends or the same way some of the top CEOs have a diverse board of advisors because they don't just tap one person for their expertise time and time again. They want that diversity of thought. Um, it's important that people also consider that in their mentor and set realistic expectations of how that relationship will proceed. And also the goals that will be accomplished within let's say a three to six month timeframe with that mentor. I think it's great, you know, who doesn't wanna make an extra $, a year, but you're gonna have to be realistic about the how, when, and the approach to do that depending on where you're starting from. And your mentor may be able to help you build out a roadmap, but they may not be the one to actually, you know, write the check, so to speak, to help you accomplish that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think for each other's own sanity, they would appreciate if you went to other people with some of those other questions that they're like, I don't know, that's not my expertise. Right. And, uh, let's, maybe let's transition to that then, because in your book you, you discussed the concept of being your own CEO of your own career and there's tends to be, I think you said seven key mentors that you would look to build on this board of mentorship. Uh, could you share a little bit about that? Like can you elaborate on this idea of being the CEO of your own career and then maybe we could transition that into like, what are those different mentor board members that we should look to develop? Absolutely. So before I get into all seven, you do not need all seven at once. This is not a game of hungry, hungry hippos. This is not a Pokemon Go situation. We are not trying to collect every single mentor at once. This is a curated experience based on the goals that you're seeking to accomplish what you have bandwidth for and the spaces that you're in. And then naturally your board of mentors will continue to evolve and expand. Oftentimes your mentor may have other people in their network that they want to introduce you to. So stay very open-minded to how you acquire that board of mentors, um, while still looking at kind of the gaps in your career. So being the CEO of your career means that you are prioritizing a custom career experience. So, you know, there are so many articles out there, like I remember in when I entered the workforce just binging every possible career builder article that was available and just trying to figure out, you know, how to navigate the workforce. But I found that sometimes their advice was just too generic for me and I needed something very specific to my experience. And so being the CEO of your career means having that intuition to know what pieces of advice are best suited for you and your current situation and being able to have a healthy dialogue with your board of mentors versus just taking that advice and running with it because they told you. So you need to be able to digest that because you are still the person that at the end of the day, um, either benefits or does not benefit from leveraging that advice. And you need to understand those implications for yourself. So with the board of mentors, this is akin to say a CEO at one of the top companies that you can think of. They do not have just one advisor, their board, their entire board, one, they have an like a structured board, then they have an advisory board, kind of a sub-board under that to make sure that they are getting the best and brightest minds around helping them build the best company humanly possible. And you need to take the same approach with your career because it takes a village, it takes a community to reach your goals and you want that diversity of thought and different, um, ways to fill the gaps in your career development. Okay, so the seven first one is your career is your company insider mentor. This person is inside your organization and they lean heavily into helping you navigate the internal politics processes, um, help you understand the promotional process, understand historical details about, let's say layoffs or how projects were previously implemented in the past. This person has a strong, um, internal reputation and can help you meet other people inside the organization. You have your skills mentor, let's say you want to get better at program management. You want to find a mentor who is also exceptional in program management and just focus on that skill within that. So that's your skill mentor. That person can be either inside or outside of your organization. It doesn't actually matter and you're just focused on refining the skill. You have your industry mentor. This person is known as a legend in your industry. They have probably been around for at least years inside the space, depending on the maturity of the industry that you're a part of. Um, they know which associations you should join. They know who the heavy hitters are. They know which companies, um, actually value people within your industry. They've seen all of the trends and they can predict what's going to happen over the next three to five years because they've had tenure within that industry and can help you navigate building your own deeper trench inside that particular space. You have your, uh, I'm this all coming off of memory. So you have your network mentor, this is your social butterfly. This person knows everybody to like the smallest detail, like anybody that they're introducing you to. They know their dog's name, they know where they were born, the time they were born. They know everything about everyone within their network. And this is an important mentor to have because they will help you learn the power of networking in a way that's authentic to you. Most people think that networking means you have to be at say, events per month or events per week for some. And if that's what you like, go for it. As an introvert myself, that is not gonna work for me. So I always had network mentors that understood kind of my boundaries and bandwidth around the way I like to form connections and then helped me tailor that to meet the right people and go deeper into the relationships that would truly be beneficial while also navigating other relationships so that I was constantly building a ground swell of support as I advanced in my career. And that is exactly what a network mentor should do. The money minded mentor is one of my favorites because they are not just looking at your work, they're looking at your overall financial landscape. So what I like to do with this particular mentor is say, I would really love to accomplish X, Y, and Z in the next year. How can I do that? And they will look at my corporate compensation, they'll look at my speaking engagements, they'll look at side hustles investments. They'll take a look at your entire financial portfolio to help you start building that fulfilling life that isn't just dependent upon where you work. Because at the end of the day, you know, most people want to have a life that they're proud of. They want to be able to travel or have hobbies or something that's fulfilling outside of work. And sometimes, um, we lose sight of that. So the money minded mentor will help you look at your entire financial landscape to make sure that you're prioritizing your financial wellbeing in addition to striving for additional goals. Last two, your influential ally. Now this can either be social ally, this could be socialeconomic, this could be um, you know, identity related. So something that's DEI related, um, if you're underrepresented. But this person is willing to advocate for you and use their privilege to help you advance in a similar way as you can, given the differences between you. So for example, one of my mentors Joseph, um, he always helped me get into spaces where, um, there weren't a lot of people that looked like me or maybe there weren't a lot of women in these particular tech spaces. He would bring me as his guest. He would vouch for me, he would put his name on the line to make sure that I was in certain spaces. Or, um, earlier in my career when I was um, about to enter into uh, management consulting, there was a manager, and I actually talk about this in the book. There was a manager that I, creative director that I interviewed with for her team. My skillset skewed a little more editorial than the work that she needed. So I wasn't a fit for that manager role there, but a month later a role opened in a completely different department across the country, literally. And she advocated for me to the point that this new creative director just called me and gave me the role within two weeks of this conversation because she believed in me. She put her neck out, she had the agency, the brand, and the ability to advocate for me where um, this new opportunity became more readily available than me having to fight through the thousands of people that were also vying for this role. So allyship can take multiple, multiple roles. I love all the hearts from people liking that. Um, and then the last one is your peer mentor. I said it before and I will say it again. A peer mentor is your secret weapon because they understand exactly what you're going through. Um, again, they're one to two levels ahead of you. They might be inside your organization, they might not be. But compared to somebody with significant tenure that maybe had to adjust to a different culture, had to adjust to a different state of the world, let's say they understand exactly what you're experiencing right now and they use the same tools. They're working with the same key players. They know who's hiring, who's not, they know exactly what skills are relevant for today in your current position to help you get to where they are. And there is less of a formality in peer mentorship because of that experiential gap being so narrow. So those are the seven and how they work. And depending on what you're working on, I say pick two or three of those seven, start working with them and then make adjustments from there depending on what it is you're seeking to accomplish. I love that. And I just put this in the chat. I'd love to hear for some of you looking for a mentor, just need a mentor. Depending on where you are in your career organization, what t type of impact or direction you're going with, uh, with within that space, what of the seven are you focused on? Which, which one do you need to build and engage with? For me, I'm looking at this list of seven. We have insider and hopefully all of you were writing some notes. 'cause that was amazing. Thank you Janet, for just like, that is, that was amazing, uh, insight of like how we could start to think about the different types of mentors that we should have. And we have insider the skills, industry, network, money, the ally and the peer mentor. Right? I mean what's interesting for me that came out was like, oh, a peer mentor is maybe one that I'm even looking or missing right now where maybe I had that in the past. And now as I kind of like been more in a leadership role as entrepreneur and, and within organizations I, I've lost maybe that peer mentor one, which is interesting 'cause you know, I do feel like an I'm on an island sometimes, right? And you go back to that connection piece. Yeah. Um, wow. So yeah, put it in the chat. I'd love to hear, 'cause I know some of you're like, I have a mentor or I need a mentor and maybe even if you have a mentor, did you have only one of these seven, right? Like which other one are you looking to build? Yeah, peer mentorship, uh, uh, Marita seven. Does that mean, you know, seven maybe. I get it. I get it. It's hard. Internal and skills mentor. Yes. Inspired by all. Thank you for sharing those in the chat there Susan. Uh, so Janice, let's, I know we have like minutes left here. So I would love to get into a little bit of like the how, right? Like how do we actually start to develop these relationships? How do we start building these mentors into our life? And maybe we start more individually here, right? Like how as an individual do we go about identifying and engaging with key mentors? And then I'd love maybe we start to discuss like as an organization, you know, especially for our HR leaders in the room here and people leaders and just leaders in general, um, how do we look at fostering that within our organizational culture and operations? But with the individual piece, and I, I saw some questions come in on the q and a side, right? Like how do you, what process or way do you go about, um, identifying and, and maybe the identification piece you already talked about, right? Like you have these seven, you identify which type of mentor maybe based on what your goals and objectives are, and that links to a very specific type of mentor. Uh, and then, but how do you actually engage 'em? Like how do we actually start to get that relationship going and, and building that mentorship relationship? Yeah, I, so we've touched on the first pieces, right? Practicing self-awareness, knowing who you are, the types of people you want to be around, what energizes you and what doesn't because you want people who will help align to that. We talked about the types of mentors already, so we're in a good spot to now transition into these watering holes, where to find them and how to talk to them. So I'll, I'll kind of touch on that piece. So when I talk about watering holes, um, this is kind of an entrepreneurial term for where a company's majority customer base would be. And the same logic applies for finding mentors. So these could be either in-person or virtual. I think. Um, gone are the days of needing to only go to in-person opportunities. So that does broaden the number of options that you have. So you can do networking groups of course based on either affinity based on interests. So let's say you are in venture capital, going to a women in VC event would be a great place potentially, or a women in tech event if you are also in that space. If you're an HR leader, like everyone here, um, then I would take a look at some interests within that. So I know that there are groups focused on those that are on the CHRO path. There are groups on the intersections of HR and ai. I think that's a really interesting rise of community groups recently. I know UKG puts on a lot of great events and networking opportunities at conferences that you can also leverage. And they have their own series of conferences that I highly recommend taking a look at and events that will be great opportunities to connect with people virtually. You know, there are so many, um, social media platforms that have their own affinity group or interest group opportunities, um, that you can leverage. I'm trying not to use names, but you know, based on different interests, based on career levels, um, you can find those as well. And don't underestimate the power of just asking for an introduction. I have coached several of my colleagues and friends to make a simple LinkedIn post that says I'm interested in broadening, broadening my network with the purposes of meeting an impactful mentor to help me accomplish blank. Make it one sentence, not too long, we don't have time on social media. So one sentence then going into, ideally this mentor would have experience in HR strategy and succession planning or whatever topic is related to what you're seeking to accomplish over the next three to six months. Should you know anybody, I would welcome an introduction. Feel free to tag them in the comments. Um, some of my skills and qualifications, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I'm really hoping to refine my strengths and x and then honestly the floodgates kind of open. Some people might get five names, some people might get , but honestly the people that get five names, those tend to be the stronger connections than this long leads list. So once you have a couple of potential people, you've gotten the business cards, you've exchanged information, just take the pressure, ah, you're not auditioning them, you're not interviewing for America's top mentee by any means. What you want to do is just get to know this person as a person. Learn more about them, you know, where are they from? What inspires them? Why are they interested in mentorship? Are they interested in mentorship? Um, learn more about their career and how they operate on a day-to-day basis and actually see if you like them. A lot of people sleep on that piece of a mentor relationship, but it's one of the most important relationships you can have. And the same way you like all of your friends, or at least you should, otherwise they shouldn't be qualified as such. You should like every single one of your mentors, you should feel excited to talk to them. You should feel comfortable around them. So really take inventory of what's happening in your body when you're speaking to these mentors, either virtually or in person. Do you feel alarmingly on edge where you're never able to calm down? Do you feel like you can actually be vulnerable and share your strengths and areas of improvement with them? Do you feel like you need to only put your best base forward? Take a just run an inventory on that because the best mentor mentee relationships are where you can feel the most comfortable recognizing that it does take time to build that trust, but if there's even an inkling or a kernel of that, that's always a good sign. So from there, let's say out of the five people that you have been speaking to and considering for mentorship, um, there's one that you are just so excited about. You feel comfortable with them, you like speaking to them, they've been giving you good advice already. You've met with them two or three times and you just feel good about it and you want to make the ask. Um, it doesn't have to be a long thing. We don't need a flash mob. All you need to do is just set up time to speak with them and say, Hey, you know, I've been really enjoying our last two coffee meetings and I really think I could learn a lot from you. Are you open to having a conversation about engaging in a more structured mentor dynamic between us? Well, just let me know what you think. No worries if you're busy and then see what they say. Some people will say, yes, absolutely, let's have the conversation and discuss. Some people may not have bandwidth just given family summer, whatever it is. And that is okay. Don't take it personally. It is never you. Um, usually. And then when you actually schedule that meeting, keep it to maybe minutes recognizing the areas that you have benefited from learning through them already. Thank them for their time. Recognize the areas that you'd like to improve on and how you see that individual helping you accomplish that. And in the book, there's a whole chapter on how to make the ask with templates, guides the assessments and everything to take all of the guesswork and anxiety out of such a vulnerable piece of the process and then ask them what they think when they say yes. Then, um, get into the details of how you're actually going to build that relationship. Do they prefer texting every so often? Are they open to meeting once a month? If so, virtual or in person? Um, do they want to have something that's more structured? Like just get an understanding and a level set of expectations for both parties so that you are operating on the same sheet of music? Wow, that was ama like you just gave us the playbook basically, first of all, like how do we start to approach and engage this? And one of the things that was just coming to my kind of coming top of mind as you shared kind of how you go about this, um, it, it kind of made me realize there is kind of some level of vulnerability that's required in order to start developing these mentorship relationships, right? Where others don't know what others don't know what they don't know, right? So if they're not aware that you're having challenges or needs or what you could use help on, they can't necessarily support you directly or connect you with the right people that can support you as a mentor or in that scenario. So I really appreciate kind of your reaffirming, like taking the courage to be vulnerable on LinkedIn and sharing where you need help and what you're looking for. Or when I at least reached out and found and cultivated these relationships with my current mentors, they always came from a level of vulnerability of like, I don't have this figured out and I would appreciate it if I could use your mentorship on this topic because I know you've dealt with this before. You've navigated this before and would you be willing to spend , minutes unpacking this with me? Right? And now it's like very purposeful and also, uh, anyone is always honored to get that ass of like, oh, I could share my experience some with someone else and in hopes that'll help them navigate their life in some way. I think that's an honor for a lot of people. Um, but they, that won't ever be surfaced unless they know they can get that like vulnerable ask right from someone I would love. Then also, Janice for the last couple minutes here, um, how do we as organizations maybe start to look at this? So do we start to like proactively help form the seven within our organization for each employee? Is it, uh, you know, obviously maybe purchasing your book and giving it to our leaders so they could people so they can learn from, from that expertise. But how might an organization start to look at this, uh, strategically too and and approach it, Give your employees? So there's a shift that's happening. Um, I consult with some large organizations and there's a shift that's happening in the way employees want to be set up with potential mentors. Some programs will just sort of give them a mentor, but you want to be able to explain the logic behind it that's extremely important so that your mentee and mentor understand the similarities and areas that they might be able to focus on. Um, a lot of the workforce now wants to have the option to choose and feel empowered in building their mentor relationships. So for example, I have a few clients right now where we set up a program, still a mentorship program, but they have mapped them to essentially a buddy inside the company where they are working with them month over month, giving them these vulnerability, um, questionnaires to help them build that relationship and that trust over time. And the structure is more on establishing that foundational connection. And then at the end of the program, if they choose to engage in a formal mentor mentee relationship from there, then that works well. So the employees are working on a specific goal together. Like one person might be interested in, um, navigating their first days inside the organization or their new role let's say, and this person is supporting that, but the title of mentor is something that they reserve until both parties feel ready for that. And then once a month throughout this, these programs, which I recommend no more than six months, that's usually long enough, maybe just three, um, being able to then introduce them to the other members of the cohort to give them a more diverse array of potential mentors and mentees and help basically serving as that network mentor for everyone within that cohort because now everybody's learning from one another. There might be a speaker on a specific topic that you bring in to help build that closeness within the cohort. And it allows people to organically build those relationships in a very structured dynamic with the intention of everybody coming out with the mentor mentee relationship without that pressure. That would be my recommendation. Get senior leadership involved as soon as humanly possible. That executive sponsorship is really important and have them involved in the process. Um, look at your pulse survey data. Treat this like a CEO would treat their customer acquisition strategy. You want to talk to the employees that you're seeking to provide mentorship to and understand what their hurdles are. What are they struggling with, what mentorship programs have they tried in the past that weren't successful and why that customer discovery will help you curate an experience that actually solves a problem for your employees. You want your mentorship program to be an aspirin, not a Flintstones vitamin. Otherwise your engagement metrics will be significantly lower than if they feel that time and investment and care from you as the HR leaders. And the only way you're going to do that is by speaking to those employees directly and asking them what they're looking for, asking them what they pain points are and the types of mentors that they're looking for, and then serving as that network mentor and that influential ally to support bridging those gaps for them and their development. Yeah, the whole like kind of phrase that comes to mind is like strategic mentorship, right? Like very tactical and strategic with what your people are dealing with or needing with right now based on your listening engagement with them and, and creating kind of a mentorship relationship or, or at least you know, kind of what the example would kind of reminded me, like sparks of mentorship, right? Like you're fostering opportunities to initiate mentorship relationships that you are supporting for three months maybe, but then after that you're at least creating the opportunity for an ongoing organic relationship to continue beyond that, right? And and I think about how us as HR leaders get buy-in from other executives. It's gotta be tactic tactical and strategic and be connected to something that's gonna impact the business, right? So, um, that seems like such a, a natural pathway that you can take. All right, well we're at the hour that went by so fast, I'm kind of sad that it's over. Uh, I want to ask you so many more questions and continue unpacking this so much with you Janice, but thank you so much for just sharing some time with our community and our network. Obviously we're gonna raffle off copies of the book, so make sure you fill out that. I definitely encourage you to connect with Janice online@linkedin.com, the LinkedIn link in the chat there. Uh, Janice, anything else that people should look out for or follow you on that we should be aware of? LinkedIn is perfect and let me know how I can support. You all are doing such incredible and important work. Thank you for your time this afternoon. Mentorship is important and the fact that you're going to shepherd mentorship inside your organizations and for yourselves is a really thrilling journey and I just wish you the best of luck. Thank You so much. Yeah. Thank you again for sharing your expertise and your time with our community. Thank you everyone for dedicating time out of your day to your development and growth and learning. It's an honor to be your partner. I see so many people as Susan's, like could you be my mentor Janice, in some way, but, uh, uh, I love this. Yeah, I appreciate all of you. Have a great rest of your afternoon. Thanks for joining us and we look forward to seeing you again at a future program.

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