Inclusion@work: Opening Panel - The Inclusion Reality Check, Trends, Tensions & What’s Actually Working

All right. Hello everyone, and welcome totoday's Inclusion Network Seminar with a Achieve engagement. I'm so excited tocome together as a community already.

Love the action going on in the chat if youhaven't already. Let's see where you're calling in from. Let's start to see thefootprint and the diversity of reach that we have within our network.

For introduction sake, though, my name isZach Doms and I am President at Achieving Engagement, and I'm joined by myCOHEs and partner in crime for today. Hi, I'm Clara Car. I am the founder ofPurpose with Clarity, and I'm a global internal communications and engagementexpert.

And I'm so excited to be here. Gosh, we arereally looking forward to today's program. We've been putting together a lineupof experts and people who have continued to push the needle forward within thisspace, but also navigate some of the shifts within this, this industry, in thisspace of the world of work and workplace culture, and really society as awhole.

So today we are gonna unpack this with somehonest reflections on where the industry is at today and how the landscape hasshifted and how some of the different, maybe political and different societalheadwinds have caused shifts within this space, and how language is evolvingand, and how organizations though that see the business impact and are reallykind of leading this at the forefront within their organizations, arecontinuing to make progress, and they're gonna share those models and thoseframeworks with you. So we have a lot to unpack today. But Clara, what aboutyou? What are some of the things you're most looking forward to in today'sprogram? Like, what are some things you're really excited to learn with ustoday? Yeah, I mean, first I'm excited to be here.

I'm excited to see all these people showingup for these important conversations, and I'm really excited for the honestywe're gonna be bringing to the room. Um, but there's no sugarcoating it. Thiswork looks a little different than it yid a year ago.

Um, there's more pressure, more silence,but also a lot more clarity in it. And so I'm really looking forward to talkingabout where we go from here, um, and just listening and learning from theexperts that are gonna be joining us today. What about you, Zach? Anythingelse? Yeah, no one I already love, like you shared, like the people who areshowing up for this conversation, not only the speakers who have volunteeredtheir time to really contribute to this, this discussion and share how they'reactually doing it internally or how they've done it in the past, but also allof you that are attending right now, right? Like I see people from Chicago,Dallas, Tampa Bay, south Africa's in the house.

We got Austin, Texas, Connecticut,Maryland, and San Antonio. I see you Pittsburgh, Kim. Hello.

Good to see you in here too, Ontario,Montreal, Darren, I mean, we have an international footprint here, and I thinkone of the most powerful aspects of these learning experiences is on one hand,yes, you're gonna get access to some of the leading innovators in this spacewho are really presenting and breaking down different frameworks and strategiesand how they're doing this. So I really encourage you to take tons of notes,put pen to paper, and really process these things and learn how you might applythem to your own culture or your own context that you're operating in today.But the other powerful aspect of today that I'm really also excited about islearning with the community.

All of you that are attending, right? Likeall of you are having your own experience and with such a diverse footprintglobally that we have here, I would love to also hear like, how is this showingup within your region or your organization? So as we're going through today'sconversations, add that in the chat, like add in, Hey, this is how ourorganization maybe changed our approach to it, or here's how we're actuallyexecuting that from an employee resource group standpoint, or here's someresearch that we leverage to really make an impact on that today. So I'm reallylooking forward to that piece, uh, of, of learning from all of you. So onething I would, I would love to see in the chat and, and Claud, I'd, I'dencourage you maybe add, ask anything else from our community, but what aresome of the ways that you're viewing inclusion today? Like, what is one thing,and put this in the chat right now, maybe in a few words, how are you maybeapproaching or how do you define inclusion today within your own context oryour organization? I'd love to see what what's coming up for you today.

So, uh, let's see here. I gotta scrolldown. This chat's blowing up.

What are you all excited about? Yes,accepting people for who they are. I love that. To Dara, what else do we have?Felipe and Washington welcome for you all.

What are you most excited about? How wouldyou define or see inclusion? What does that mean to you? Creating a safe space?Psychological safety. I love the opportunity. Visibility, relationships,ensuring everyone has a voice.

Absolutely. Ongoing, intentional practice.I think I love that piece, right? Like there's sometimes there's the intentionpiece of what we mean for inclusion, but then as you share Nicole, right, like,how do we turn this into an intentional practice, like in action? And we liveinclusion provided for all voices, brave spaces for show up authentically.

This is great. Keep adding that in chat.What else are you seeing? Clara? Yeah, I like the intentionality behind all ofit.

Um, the intentionality to engage allvoices. Um, making sure that everyone is feeling seen and acknowledged. That'sat the core root of all of this.

You know, making sure that people feelseen, heard and appreciated. Um, equity built into systems. Chris, that's areally good point there.

Pay promotions, patience for those who maybe socially anxious, but wanna feel included. Oh, I love this. I love thisdefinition here.

My vision of inclusion is to createenvironment where every individual's skills, potential, and experiences arerecognized and valued. That's at the core of it. All right there.

Yeah, this is wonderful. All right, well,Clara, before we get kicked off, any other thoughts as we open up today'sprogram or intentions that you would share for the community as we kick thisoff? Just thank you. Thank you everyone for showing up.

Um, listen, learn, contribute. Um, thiswork is so important and showing up is the first step. So thank you for beinghere.

Um, and thank you for joining our sessiontoday. I second that so much, and I think one thing I would reaffirm is we'realso coming to you as students and learners today. So I'm excited to learnalongside with you.

I'm gonna be taking tons of notes. We'regonna be recording today's program as well. So for those of you that love tolisten back and really revisit these lessons learned, uh, we're, we will besharing those, uh, in a few days after we kind of clip them up.

Uh, also just for other housekeeping items,today is approved for S Shem and HRCI credits. So we'll share those at the endof the program. We have a lot packed.

We're gonna have a mix of open discussions,panel dialogues, as well as some really tactical focused presentations from afew leaders who are, we're gonna break down some deeper frameworks and waysthey've approached this. So we're gonna have a mix of experiences. We got a lotto pack in.

So as we go through this, also, take careof yourself, take the breaks that you need. Um, we will, we'll be able to comeback and kind of revisit these things, but I really encourage you to make thisthe ultimate learning experience with us, right? Like, share what you'relearning, take notes, reflect on these things, and through that, together wecan start to create ripples of change and impact in the different cultures andorganizations or teams that we serve. So that being said, if you are all ready,maybe put a yes.

Are you ready to get this started? Shouldwe get this going? I would love to see, are you all ready with us? Are youready to learn? Yes. Woo-hoo. All right.

That being said, let's kick this off. I'mreally excited to welcome two incredible leaders that I look up to quite a bit.They've been part of our network in a few capacity serving both with our owncommunity in the past, but in trailblazing ways within their own organizations.

And we thought to really open up this, thisevent, it would be worthwhile having just an honest conversation about thestate of inclusion, right? Like, let's kick it off with a real, you know,authentic conversation around the forces that are reshaping inclusion andbelonging in today's workforce. Some of the different pressures around that,the risks involved with the decisions we make in this space today. You know,how do we see other people responding to this? And what might we do goingforward to make an even bigger impact? So, can we give a warm welcome in thechat? Click the emojis for our amazing speakers who are gonna come up here to,to kind of really trailblaze this discussion.

We have Jill, who's VP of Global Head ofDiversity, equity, inclusion and belonging at High Spot. And then we have DKBartley, global Chief Diversity, equity Inclusion, and Culture Officer at HillNolton Strategy. So I'm gonna stop sharing.

Let's welcome these amazing individuals tothe stage. Hey, Jill, good to see you. Let me pull you up.

Hi there. Happy to be here. Thank you somuch for being here with us.

And dk, are you here with us as well? I'mhere. Can you hear me? Can you see me? I, I, I see my box, but I don't see mypicture. We do hear you.

We can hear you, but the, the camera's notquite up just yet. Okay. So let me try to figure out that while you intro,Jill.

Um, this is super bizarre. Uh, it's akickoff of a, a virtual program. We gotta have a couple virtual hiccups to, tostart the day, right? So that being said, Jill, thank you so much for beinghere with us.

For those of you that are in Chicago that Isaw in the chat, make sure you connect with Jill. She's local in that area.Yes.

Just shared some amazing strategies with uswhen we were in person as a network. But Jill, yeah, please introduce yourself.And I would love just to hear your initial thoughts around kind of the state ofinclusion and some of the things that you're experiencing or seeing.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, hello everyone. Um,and you know, as was mentioned earlier, um, we appreciate you being here.

Um, you made a choice to make time to leaninto this conversation and, you know, your insights will continue to also helpshape what's next for, um, this topic. Um, well, I, I'm just gonna jump in. So,um, I have been in the diversity, equity and inclusion field for over 20 years.

So I started this work before DEI, it wascalled DEI, it was just kind of HR programs and focusing on, um, you know,ensuring that we were being intentional about bringing in diverse talent, um,in the organization because we were a government contractor, right? And had toshow good faith efforts and, um, have really seen this work evolve from, youknow, not that concept to, um, really putting the human at the center of theworkplace and understanding why, uh, people need a sense of belonging and theyneed to be included, and how that drives business, um, imperative innovationfor customers and beyond. So I've been around for a really long time, um, youknow, my take on what's happening, um, today, and I know DK is gonna talk alittle bit more, um, about kind of the specifics of what brought us here. Butwhat I, I can tell you is that DEI has seen this moment before, I would sayabout 15 years ago.

Um, so we've navigated it as, uh,practitioners and it's challenging us now to really think about inclusion in away that meets the moment for both employees, but balances, um, kind of theexternal viewpoints, pressures, um, that companies are considering. So it doesgives us this opportunity to reimagine what's next. Um, and I'm really excitedabout that.

I, uh, one, I appreciate you kind ofreaffirming, like, this isn't a completely new, you know, challenge for theworld of DEI and inclusion, right? It's like, this is kind of an ongoing, maybenavigation you experienced before. Mm-hmm. So, I'm curious how, and we'll getinto this, and dk I see you're, you're here with us now.

Let me bring you up, um, one second, andthen, but yeah, I'd be curious also how you think this might be different orhow we navigate this type of experience differently now. So, um, one second.Let me also add a pen.

There we go. All right. Dk, you're with us.

Alright, Can you hear me? Yes, we can.Okay, great. Um, I'm on my other computer now, so, uh, thank god we had anothercomputer, um, in, in my office.

So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm beyond excited to,um, spend this time with you. Um, I do, I have that dual role, um, at, uh, WPPHill and Milton. And I also, um, I'm also the Chief Talent Officer forDiversity Talent International, where we literally advise, uh, corporationsaround the world on how to rebrand their DEI strategy, uh, in our currenttimes.

Um, and I just recently wrote a book, uh,that's, I'm on a world tour around the world. I just came back from London,it's called Boom to Backlash. And it talks about, you know, how we got to thespace in the world of diversity, equity, and inclusion now more commonly knownas inclusion or engagement.

Um, so the conversation really is aboutwhat to do, um, as opposed to, uh, what not to do. Uh, because right now youreally wanna be focused on all the things that make your organization a placewhere people wanna come to, where people wanna work and where people wannastay. And you don't have to call it DEI, you could call it a wide variety ofother things.

Um, the role that AI plays is a big part ofthat as well. Um, so the conversation really is about what you should be doingas a best practice to continue to be inclusive, as well as what are the thingsthat we know that really create a workforce that you, that is best in class.Well, so, as, as, and one, I would love to kind of maybe let's start a, maybe afoundation around this conversation for even the day about like where we at aretoday, maybe some of the context or history of, and just some of your thoughtsof how we got to kind of this current state that we're in and dk you mindexpanding on that, especially with your experience globally and your researchand your book.

What are some of your thoughts on thehistory and the context of how we got to where we are today? Okay. Uh,excellent question, Zach. Um, so, I mean, let's be, let, let, let's be reallyclear here.

DEI is not new, uh, to the world. Diversity'sreally what started, uh, back in, uh, the, the seventies where IBM uh, decidedthat they really wanted to be the first company that had a workforce thatreally represented the people that they serve, right? And that went through alot of it iterations with a wide variety of organizations now mimicking thatand saying, what can we do to be more inclusive? What can we do to havepolicies, procedures, to make sure that we're not only having white men inexecutive roles, right? Um, and that meant looking at women to promote. Thatmeant looking at L-G-B-T-Q people to promote that meant looking atAfrican-Americans, veterans, all of the affinities that weren't the kind ofquote unquote norm right now.

We could sit and debate what the norm was.But the idea was that IIBM really set a precedence, uh, for what, uh, DEIlooked like in regards to creating a place where you could have, uh,intentionality around hiring and intentionality around promoting. We don't havea full, uh, hour here.

We have 30 minutes, so I won't go throughthe full lifecycle of the civil rights movement and what happened in theeighties. I'll bring it directly to the questions you asked, which is how wegot here. We got here because of George Floyd, right? Um, George Floyd happenedand everybody was home, right? The difference was, you know, we had a lot of,uh, a lot of, of DEI things and, and racial things and, um, ethnicity thingsthat happened.

But the difference was we were all homewatching our televisions and we were on home, at home doing these things,having zoom meetings, right? And whether you were, uh, black, whether you werewhite, whether you were female, whether you were veteran, everyone had thisvisceral view of why is this happening? There's something seriously wrong here.And that translated into over literally $500 billion, um, in investment over,uh, the next three years, uh, in different organizations, not just in theUnited States, around the world, really investing in providing opportunitiesfor all of the people within their organizations that were underrepresented.And I wanna be really clear about that.

All of the people, meaning differentorganizations, took a look at what they could do to be more inclusive and levelthe playing field, uh, provide opportunities for people to grow, for people towanna come and work there, provide opportunity for people to be promoted,right? And people did that in a, in a wide variety of ways. We could have awhole nother conversation around that. But what was happening now was thatthings were starting to change.

You started to see more women on boards,you started to see more of African Americans on corporate boards, thegovernment, you know, um, you know, Joe Biden passed an executive order aroundracial equity, right? So you had, you had all of these very purposeful thingsaround, uh, what's considered to be DEI. The reality is that some organizationsdid it really well, and some organizations didn't do it well. Andunfortunately, I'm here to tell you that because there's a lot of organizationsthat didn't do it well.

Um, we're in the space that we are. What isdo not doing it well means what? Doing it, not doing it well means is thatthere are some organizations that did things like quotas, right? Um, and whenyou do something like that, that's in violation of the law, right? Um, and thatcreated a problem. Other organizations, you did goals, right? And that could beinterpreted in different ways.

Some organizations, um, were not, didn't doa lot of training around how to do this, right? From my perspective, the numberone thing I always recommend people do is training so that you're not makingthose mistakes of just, you know, putting somebody in a role that doesn'tunderstand DEI. And they're like, well, let's just hire more black people. Um,that's not the way to do it.

So I share that with you in fulltransparency, because with all of the great work that was being done, there wassome organizations that really did it incorrectly. And because of that, youhave now what's called the backlash, right? Um, it's debatable, you know, thatdifferent people, different organizations are taking it to various extremes.But now you're in a situation where there was all of these gains that were madeby underrepresented groups, and literally, you know, the, the, the, the, theadministration has basically come in and said, well, you know, we wanna stickto the law.

Right Now, the debate is, what is itspecifically that's being done? Well, the question is, it still is still beingasked, well, what is specifically illegal? Right? Um, and as you know, there'sa lot of, uh, there are a lot of court cases that are debating that, et cetera.But what's happening now is that because most corporations and organizations donot want to get into a literal fight with the federal government, DEI is eitherat a standstill, or a lot of organizations are literally reversing a lot of thepolicies that they put in place, A lot of the purposeful, um, uh,organizational strategies that they put in place. A lot of the people that theyhired, um, to be very purposeful and focus on advancing equity and advancingopportunity in their organizations.

Things like, you know, supply diversityprograms where you're literally just saying that we want to not just give allthe money to the big, the big organizations. We wanna provide money, um, uh,and, and purchases from so smaller organizations. That's also being rolled backas an example.

And then I think probably the most, uh,direct, uh, uh, kind of influence is there's the marketing of it, right? WhereDEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion is being now associated with not being,uh, best in class, um, not being qualified, not having the right people, youknow, it's being blamed for things like bridges falling and, you know,airplanes falling out of the skies and things like that. We all know thatfactually that is incorrect. But I think what's happening now is we're in asituation where the marketing and the branding of DEI is creating a lot ofchallenges, both from a corporate perspective as well as from a nonprofitperspective, um, and essentially, uh, creating a lot of issues for people whoare in hr.

So the question is, how do you navigate it?Yeah. Hey, and, uh, if you're open to it, dk you, um, thanks for setting thefoundation and kind of really bringing us, uh, along that journey. Um, I thinkit's really important to state that we, as practitioners, we love data.

Um, and it's important to really take astep back and look at the data to ask it, what is it telling us about thismoment? Um, and if you'll allow me, um, I wanna share a few kind of data pointswith all of you. Um, so yes, we know there's been a shift, but, um, there wasactually some data according to Resume Builder. Um, this year they surveyedabout third a thousand DEI leaders, and they found that 65% of companies arestill maintaining their DEI budgets.

About 22% are increasing them, and only 13%are reducing or eliminating the efforts. So despite the noise, it's importantto state that nearly 87% of organizations, they're still invested in this workin some type of form. And, you know, DK mentioned it may look a little bitdifferent.

I think we're gonna get into that in asecond. But, um, but we're also seeing a trend, um, that is more aboutrepositioning, um, to that point. But it's important to understand that thiswork is ingrained in the human heart experience.

The people went through, um, the evolutionof DEI during George Floyd, and they've really settled at a point where peopledo matter. Equal access should be something that their employer should focuson. And that inclusion is still in, in the heart, right, of people when they'rethinking about who, what, uh, companies they want to apply for, or thecompanies they want to stay.

So I think it's important to really look atthe data to state that this work is continuing, how it will continue, may lookdifferent, but the essence of DEI remains a core to the corporate sector. I'dlove to, can we jump into that piece a little bit more of like, how is itactually changing and looking today if it is continuing? Because I think all ofus can agree, right at a, from the noise and media perspective, it seems likeit's at a standstill. It's not happening, it's being pulled back completely.

But as some of the data's showing us, it'sactually just maybe just being repositioned differently or rebranded as we kindof talked about. So, yeah. Joe, could you expand on that a little bit? Let'smove into that next part of this conversation, especially as you look at thefield or even your own experience in this space.

Like when you look at the range ofapproaches companies are taking to this today in practice, how have you seenthat show up if the data's showing us they aren't pulling back? Yeah,absolutely. So we're seeing a wide range responses. So, but one emergingpattern that I am noticing is that companies are becoming more selective andstrategic about how they operationalize inclusion, especially in response tojust the legal and political landscape.

And dk um, touched on this, you know,earlier. Um, but I will say, you know, on the positive side, some organizationshave this opportunity to take a step back mm-hmm. Um, to really ask themselves,did we naturally embed elements of equity and inclusion and access andaccessibility, um, within our business rhythms and functions, rather thantreating DEI as this standalone program on the side, right? So, um, forexample, you know, DI is being now tucked back into, you know, leadershippipelines, um, product development may have a, you know, a check mark on their,um, on their, uh, execution plan, uh, supplier diversity strategies.

Um, so these signal a move for, um, youknow, per moving away from performative systematic work, which I think is avery positive thing, and is the right way to actually approach this work. Um,but we're also seeing companies investing in cross-functional alignment. Sothey're pairing like DEI leaders with hrps legal teams and comms to ensure thatthe messaging, um, is fully aligned and resilient under scrutiny.

Um, so I think a lot of us have experiencedthat in our own organizations. But on the challenging side, um, we do know fearis driving some decisions, right? So companies are growing more cautious aboutwhat they put in writing, especially in external facing materials. Like thingslike your impact report, your ESG statements, even press releases.

Um, there was a recent Washington Postanalysis that found that internal DI programs often remain intact, but publicreference to those programs have been significantly reduced, creating thisperception gap, um, that's really hard to ignore. Um, but bottom line, overall,we're seeing, um, contradiction and visibility, but not necessarily an effortof, you know, eliminating, reducing, and doing away with DEI principles. Andone, there's a couple things, and, and DK I'd love for you to expand on some ofthe, these items as well, but, um, on some aspects, I, I, I kind of love thedirection that it's going where it's actually being more embedded into otherpractices and operations, and it's not this standalone function, but now it'sactually integrated into the l and d function.

It's integrated into other cross-functionalinitiatives, right? Like, it's part of the operations, which is kind of thewhole value of embedding inclusion, belonging, diversity, all those things.Those values come to life when they're part of the living operations of thebusiness. So it's like, that's almost a direction it should have been goingfrom the beginning.

But originally for many cases, and I'm kindof building off of what Felipe is adding in the chat, where they kind of chcreated this role in department, and they kind of checked this box and theycreated a brand to represent that they're DEI focused to kind of help withmaybe their, their, like, especially with all the kind of activism going on insociety, they wanted to create a brand that could attract to those type ofpeople. So now though it wasn't ever integrated into the operations piece,which is where some people are going and, and decay, I'd love your thoughts onthe way people are responding. There's a lot of pros and cons to these things,right? And some of 'em are rebranding it as Joe shared some of our, justintegrating them more into other functions versus being a standalonedepartment.

Uh, some of 'em are pulling back from thishuge DEI promise that they made to the market, and now they're pulling back ontheir statements made to that. There's a lot of like responses and then there'sa lot of maybe pros and cons and risks involved with these responses. Could youmaybe break down how you see some of these responses and like, what peopleshould be thinking about, especially as our community thinks of furtherresponses, they should be taken in this space? Yeah.

Yeah. So excellent question, Zach. So firstand foremost, it's not a one size fits all, right? So I think that in of itselfis part of the challenge right there, right? You don't have to call it DEI,lemme say that again.

You do not have to call it DEI. And thereason why I say that is every organization, um, is different. You know, uh,Google's an example.

Google's now calling it engagement, right?They are all about engagement. They really haven't changed much of what they'redoing, to be honest with you. I mean, this is publicly available information.

Um, but they're not using the word DEI andthink about if Google did as large as they are, as prominent as they are, ifeverything that they did, um, with their investments in DEI and they'veinvested millions if not billions, um, in, in DEI, uh, it would be extremelyproblematic because all you would hear is, uh, is, is is DEI and Google, right?But I use that as an example because if you are an organization where you'reselling cars or something of that nature, um, you need to really think aboutstrategically how does inclusion show up in your organization, in your product,right? In the people that are making the product, right? And also how you'remarketing the product. Because when you're selling a car, you're selling a carto everybody, not just certain types of people. And I use that example becausethat's the same way that I think most organizations, you have to think about ifyou are on Wall Street, right? And you're dealing with, you know, financial andfiduciary responsibility every day, that's a huge incentive about how you do,you do DEI, because you're constantly not only being watched by, uh, thefederal government, but you know, you're dealing with like the security andthis exchange commission that also has, uh, another, uh, kind of perception ofwhat you should and should not be doing.

So the number one thing is reallycustomizing your approach to, uh, diversity, equity, and inclusion, andunderstanding what problem are we trying to solve for just like a businessproblem. And if you do it that way, you're gonna go back to what Jill talkedabout, which is two things, which is one, purposefully embedding it in your,what I call DEI in your DNA, right? The organization, um, organizationalculture, the mission, the value, and the purpose. You will do thatautomatically.

As an example, when you're hiring people,you're not just gonna put your job on LinkedIn and that's it, right? You aregoing to go to a host of colleges and universities that may be a little bitmore diverse. You are going to look and see who does this, whatever the job maybe from a best practice perspective, and directly target that, right? So you'renot just gonna do a one size fits all. You're not just gonna do one thing.

And then when you get your resumes backinto your applicant tracking system, you wanna make sure that as you're lookingat candidates, you are looking at a multiplicity of candidates from a diversityof, of backgrounds. So you've gotta be really thoughtful about, number one,what problem you're solving for, um, from a, a, a talent perspective, a peopleperspective. But you've also gotta think about what kind of organization youare.

You know, are you in the service industry?Are you a healthcare organization, or are you a Wall Street organization? Thesethings really define what you do and how you do it. Uh, and it allows you toreally think through what your end result is going to be. It's not, oh, let mejust go online Google and see what someone else is doing and do the same thing.

Believe it or not, that's a big part of thereason why we got here, because a lot of people thought, oh, I just need tohire more women, right? It's, you know, I just need hire more black people.That's not the way it's done, right? DEI done right? Has all of the systematicthings that you are looking for when you're trying to solve a problem. And Ithink I'll, I'll build off of even Carl kind of reaffirming some of the keypoints you made where, when you approach it as a solution to business problemsor business objectives that you're having now, it's a strategic value addpillar to the business, and it's a part of who you are and what makes yourorganization amazing.

Mm-hmm. Versus situations whereorganizations as Carl shared, right, as a matter of optics, right? There is alot of energy within society around this topic. Oh, we should probably rebrandourselves so that we can be more attractive in this moment.

And then once certain entities externallychanged their, you know, appetite or their connection to specific types ofvalues, now they're like, okay, we gotta change our brand. And I think we canall relate, even on a personal level, for those people in our lives thatconstantly change who they are and act differently based on who they hangaround with. Those aren't people that you generally develop deep relationshipswith, right? You want people who authentic and core, you know, to the core ofthemselves.

And, and Jill, could you even e expand orhave any thoughts on this, especially with like, the different risks orimplications these different types of decisions have on organizations? Likewhat are some of your kind of maybe internal external risks that you see withthese responses? Yeah. Um, yeah, so there are a couple things. So, um, youmentioned it, um, head on.

Um, there was a point in time when leaderswere really excited to get this work going, invested, made, theirselfavailable, and, um, in some cases, and I'm not gonna say all organizations, butin some organizations, the passion and the momentum has slowed, right? Um, andthink about those employees who volunteered to be on the frontline, um, whenGeorge Floyd kicked off to be the ones to help lead the charge around startingERGs, even though it was addition to their functional work, um, the, uh,commitments to them to develop, um, uh, them professionally invest in theirmental wellness. And then when the tie changes, all of a sudden the positionchanges. Imagine, to your point, Zach, how folks feel.

So we can challenge, um, retention, right?Of some of our most valued employees that bring perspective to the workplace.That's critical to drive to decay's point, um, product innovation and beyond,right? So that, I think that's a big one when folks or employees start to movefrom being all in and culture champions to more compliance based, let me put myhead down. I'm, I don't really believe in where I am, you know, for the momentthen I, I would say we're in, we're, we're in trouble, right? So I think that'sa, a, a big risk.

Um, I also think it's a risk from, uh, anexternal perspective as well. Now, I won't go into that, but folks are watchingthe commitment levels and dk, I don't know if you see this in LinkedIn, but Isee posts like, oh, today such and such company did this. Oh, today, you know,right? So it also changes the way that the consumer connects to that brand,right? We won't go into target right now, but that's an example of some of theexternal implications that's happening, especially within the consumer base, Right?Yeah.

And I, I kind of would love even yourthoughts on, and, and dk maybe you can, uh, lead us on this question that Johnshared where there's the internal risks of disengaging your people when pullingaway from these type of values and initiatives that your organization isstanding on, and there's a risk from a retention standpoint or engagementstandpoint. But then externally, there are also risks involved. And dependingon your industry, um, there might be legal, legitimate legal risks involved.

Or as you share, there's the risk a pullingway, like target scenario or other organizations that are gonna lose customersor certain market access if they start to make certain decisions. Um, so John'skinda sharing like, what about when the optics is a large part of yourbusiness? And business initiatives are often framed in non-measurable termslike a human rights nonprofit. So, um, yeah, decay, any thoughts on when opticsis a large part of our organization? So, So I wanna be really clear about thisbecause I think it's really important.

I think it's part of where the challenge isnow. The law is the law, okay? The law has not changed, and that is why, um,there are a lot of, uh, injunctions and there's a lot of, uh, uh, challenges towhat's currently, um, being, uh, kind of promoted now, um, uh, related to DEIfrom a federal perspective, uh, because the question is, you know, with the,with the executive orders that came out, there are things that were notdefined. So what specifically is illegal? We're still waiting to hear theanswer of that question, because if you're doing illegal things, you're doingillegal things and you shouldn't be doing any, and there are consequences forthat, right? So from an optic perspective, as long as first and foremost,particularly if you're doing DEI within an organization, you should be workinghand in hand with your legal team, right? And your compliance team, that'snumber one, right? So you shouldn't be going out there making statements,putting things on LinkedIn, um, advertising things or even attending eventswithout a clear understanding of what the event is, how it's going to impactyour brand, whether you're a for-profit or nonprofit, right? Um, and to whatlevel you are going to be a visual representation of your brand because youjust showing up, even if you don't say something at an organization with acertain name, may have certain implications, right? Um, so number one is thatyou should be working hand in hand with legal and compliance.

Number two, you should understand, um, whatyou're trying to gain. If a part of what you do is to be out there and makingstatements, right? That ties directly to your mission and values and yourpurpose. There are some organizations that have inclusion as a part of theirmission, right? They have diversity as a part of their value.

It's if you go, then you google who theyare and what they do. You know, it's a big part of that. Um, so you really haveto be clear about that.

And I think the last thing, um, which I dovery often is you really wanna make sure that you have a clear understanding ofwho all your stakeholders are. Do you have a board? Right? You know, what's theboard's point of view? If you have a board and the board's saying, well, we aregonna change DEI, we're not gonna go, you, you need to do that, and you need tounderstand what that means, right? You can't use that word. You can, whetheryou like it or not.

I'm just, and I'm being a little bitextreme here, but it's a fact. Um, because the board is really, they're theboss of the CEO. Um, and, and most of the information is coming from that.

If you don't have a board and you have a, aboard and you have an advisory committee, you know, or a diversity committee,uh, or a diversity council, you know, what is their function? In some casesit's been disbanded. Um, and if it's been banned, it's, it's been, if it's beendisbanded, it may not have been re replaced. Um, so these are the types ofthings that you've gotta think about.

You don't wanna put not only yourself atrisk, but you don't wanna put the company at risk. Um, so it's really importantto understand your stakeholders and who they are. Uh, and then lastly, makesure that whatever you do, you either, um, get opinions from them or you getfeedback.

Um, I do a thing where I send, I have a,you know, my group of, of team of people, um, that I send emails to, and I getfeedback just to make sure people understand. And those are usually, uh, uh,senior level people, uh, understand what we're doing and why we're doing. Andthe reason is that you may be having the best intentions and something may, maygo wrong when something goes wrong.

You do not wanna be on an island, um, byyourself. That's really important. I appreciate you expanding that.

And I'm looking at the clock and the timehas flown by. So we are just at about time. So I'd love to hear just someparting thoughts, especially as we start to move into the rest of the programwhere we're gonna start continuing expanding on the business case, strategicways to make an impact models and frameworks.

Um, Jill, I'll pass it to you first to kindof maybe provide, uh, a quick closing thought. What are some things that youwould encourage this community to think about as they kind of navigate some ofthese choices going forward? Yeah, I mean, the first and foremost is, um, for alot of us, especially practitioners who lay at the charge, this work can bevery heavy. So I think it's important to state that, um, one, take care ofyourself, but two, recognize that this is a change that can bring evolution towhat is next to this work, and nothing stays the same.

So let's seize this moment and really shapeit for the next generations to come. But within that one, always naturallyintegrate this work into what you do, move your organization from a state ofunconscious bias to unconscious inclusion. It's just how we talk.

It's just how we work. It's how we treatone another. It's how we make decisions that is golden.

Um, number two, focus on storytelling,right? With external pressures, the media, sometimes we need to take a stepback and be thoughtful about how we bring our own employees through thatjourney, okay? Be transparent, be honest, be vulnerable, all of the inclusiveleadership principles that we, um, that we teach. And then also make sure thatyou're creating two-way bridges for dialogue and inputs with employees ifevolution will take place so that you can get some buy-in and they can help youget to the next phase of what inclusion is. Lastly, inclusion is here to stay.

Okay? If we can solve for inclusion, wesolve for belonging, we solve for diversity, equity, et cetera, it is a formulafrom my perspective. Um, don't be caught up in what we call it, but just bereally focused on the essence of what it's designed to do, and ensuring that weare leading the charge and creating equitable and fair workplaces for allemployees to thrive. Amazing.

Joe, thank you so much. Can we give a roundapplause for Joe for closing this up and bringing that home and dk any partywords for the last minute here? Yeah, so I'm not able to see the chat. Um, so,uh, if you wanna reach out to me, it's dk bartley@diversitytalentinternational.com.

Um, you could also, uh, googleme@dkbartley.com, so I'm happy to answer more questions. Um, I'm going ontorso. If I'm in your city, please, uh, come by.

Let's talk. Uh, and the book is alsoavailable on, uh, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, um, uh, and bookstores all aroundthe world. But my parting words are, uh, three points.

Number one, you do not have to call it DEI,right? It has to be customized to your organization. So if the word DEI doesn'twork for your organization, do not call it DEI call it engaging. Call itinclusion, call it belonging, call it what works for you.

That's number one. Number two isstakeholder management is really, really important. Whether you're a smallorganization of five people, or you're a large organization of 50,000 people.

So understand who your allies and youradvocates are, and they will help you get through this, right? That's really,really important. Consider them your, your board of directors, yourcheerleaders, um, your, your personal executive team. Um, really important foryou to understand that.

Uh, and the last thing is, you know, kindof how Jill started, it's all about the data, right? If you are in anorganization where you have to constantly, um, kind of provide a level ofrelevancy in regards to the A HR of it all the, the diversity of it all, theequity of it, all, the inclusion of it all, know your data, figure out how toget your data, that's how for my career, I've always been able to be successfulat the highest level. Um, because then the data doesn't lie. When you leavethat room, the data still exists, right? Um, and it's a way for you to tellyour story, enhance your organization, and tie it to concrete facts and figuresthat's gonna make a difference and help you understand why DEI will never dieno matter what you call it.

Amazing kickoff to the program. Uh, Joe dk,thank you so much for kicking off this day of learning with us, for sharingyour expertise, your perspective with our community. As I shared in the chat,everyone, make sure you connect with you with them both via LinkedIn.

Uh, if you're in those areas, reach out tothem, you know, pick their minds. These are some trailblazers in this space,and definitely check out D K's new book as he goes on this tour, and we cansupport, uh, you know, continuously learning and making an impact that way aswell. So let's give around applause to these amazing leaders, dk.

Jill, thank you again. Have a great day.All right, everyone, how about that As a kickoff, and I'd love to welcome mypartner in crime up here again.

I mean, what a way to kick off today'sprogram. I'm excited to continue the learning, but for you, what were some ofthe things that stood out in that conversation? Just incredible. Thank you somuch, Jill and dk.

Um, I really admire the fact that you haveto acknowledge that public pressure and internal alignment aren't the samething. Um, and also this idea of, it doesn't matter what you call it. Um, sojust, I so grateful for the thoughts, the insights, but I do think that thosetwo pieces of information were key takeaways for me, and I'm excited to hearmore about what the audience thinks.

Yeah. Add in the chat audience. What weresome of the things that really stood out to you? I think, uh, I, I really foundit interesting too, just understanding the internal and external risks withyour responses and your decisions, right? Both from an engagement and aretention standpoint, as well as from like a market and your client base andthe type of brand you're positioning out to society, right? Like, there's a lotof risks involved with our decisions as well as legal risks as well, that weneed to take into consideration.

So makes it, it's, it's, this is a verycomplex challenging space, right? This is not like as kind and clear as we'dlike it to be. So, uh, for you, yeah, what were some of the big things thatstood out for, for you? Put that in the chat. I'd love to hear what you learnedfrom that conversation.

Otherwise, to keep the program going. Whatdo you think? Should we kick off our first section of the impact accelerator?Let's do it. Alright, well, let me share my screen..