Inclusion@work: Panel Discussion, “Global DEI, Local Realities - Scaling Belonging Without Losing the Human Thread”

I am really looking forward to reopening this up into more of a open
discussion format. So, uh, Clara, what are we doing here? What can, who
are we welcoming to the stage? So I am so excited to be moderating this
next conversation all about global DEI and local realities, scaling,
belonging without losing the human thread. So this session’s gonna be
really what it likes, what it’s about to take, to build cultures of
belongings across border systems and identities without losing that
human thread. Um, keeping in mind what we talked about earlier, that
inclusion doesn’t look the same everywhere, but there are some things
that still hold true, like that need to feel, seen, feel heard, and feel
valued. And I am joined today by two incredible leaders who are doing
this work in very real and very global ways. Um, first up we have Tonja
Hood Hill, who’s a seasoned fractional CHRO, who brings over 25 years of
global people leadership experience to this conversation. And then we
also have Miba Mayette, who is the director of Inclusion and Diversity
at Westcom Financial. So I’m so excited to have you both here and wanna
just dive in and anchor the room around this conversation of scaling
belonging. Um, so I’d love to ask you both what scaling belonging means
to you and your current work, what stayed true, even as the world
continues to shift. So let’s start with you Twana. Yeah, thank you,
Clara. Um, and I agree the, the morning has been amazing. Um, and I’m
really excited to be part of this conversation. So what I think, um, is
really happening right now and what I’m seeing and what everyone has
been talking about is a, is a, just an innate fear. Fear of the unknown,
fear of, um, even misunderstanding of what might be happening. You know,
um, what are the laws and are the laws changing? And if they are, does
that mean that we have to follow them? You know, there, there’s, there’s
all this questioning which leads to fear. And what I think is really
true is if you are working internally at an organization that is
responding from a place of fear, you will always erode trust. And Den
said, you know, we talked a little bit about trust, which I, I made a
lot of notes. Den trust is, is probably the most important, um, currency
that you can trade in with employees. And so if an organization is doing
knee jerk reactions, they’re, they’re stopping D-E-R-D-E-I programs,
they’re saying we can’t talk about it anymore. That, you know, the
funding has gone away and it feels very sudden that erodes trust. And no
matter what employees are actually saying, what they’re feeling is
they’re questioning whether or not they can trust and believe and be
part, therefore belong to this organization. So that’s the way I see it.
I Love it. You were preaching up there. Absolutely. What about you?
Anything to add in there? I think there’s also, on the other side, while
companies are pulling back, there’s also a risk of retreat, right? And
so Jill had some stats in the morning related to companies and where
they are, but there’s also, you know, different risk when you are
thinking about pulling back from the work, right? From like a talent
perspective, a legal perspective, a reputational perspective, right? And
even from a consumer insights perspective, right? There are brands,
we’ve been talking about it all morning, there’s brands that, you know,
aren’t being supported anymore because they’re pulling back, but there’s
also employees, right? So there was a, uh, there was a risk of retreat,
um, uh, report by Catalyst and Mercer, which I can drop later on, but it
says, you know, 76% of employees say that they will stay longer with
employee employers that support DEI. Right? So that’s three out of four
employees. And on the flip side it says, more than two out of every five
employees are about 43% will say they will quit, right? So when we’re
thinking about attrition, we’re thinking about retention, we are
thinking about development. That is also one of the thing, the risks of
retreat. We wanna continue the work and we want each, the way that you
might do it will look a little different. And that’s probably for the
benefit of DI in the work overall. Like every company naming it a little
bit different, every company doing it a little bit different, but really
just thinking about you can’t pull it out because there are so many
risks on the other side as well. Mm-hmm. I love that. You know, the
other piece, can I add that to that? I think that’s a great point, Misa,
and what I always say is the organization still culture still matters.
And, um, the organiza your organizational culture is going to determine
your success as an organization. You can choose to ignore that or not,
but it’s true. The need to develop leaders to be able to take on 21st
century challenges still exists, right? The need for people to feel like
they have a place where they are valued and seen and heard will not go
away. The need to, to have people who understand how to interact with
people who might not be the same as them, that need is not going to go
away. And so again, that speaks to the need again, for ongoing
belonging. Call it what you want, but people need to feel like they’re
part of your organization A hundred percent. And that’s a life skill, if
anything. So I’d love to continue to build upon that and specifically
the global vision and the local nuance. Um, MEbA, I know that you’ve led
DEI globally from the US with teams in over 20 countries. So how do you
balance that big picture in the local reality when it comes to strategy,
leadership, and culture? Yeah, it’s definitely not a one size fits all.
It’s not a let’s do what we’re doing in the US and copy it across our
different regions in our countries, right? You really have to think
about what is the overarching goal? Like what do you want all team
members to feel, experience, what is your true and authentic culture?
But how do you localize that for each country? Each country is very
different and what their priorities are are gonna be very different than
what US or UK or, you know, Canada looks like, right? Like India and
Singapore and some of those Japan, like their everyday nuances and even
the makeup of those team members look very different. And so you can’t
say we want all of our offices to have, you know, 12 employee resource
groups, uh, because it doesn’t fit that way, it doesn’t fit that mold.
And so you really have to take the time and understand each different
country and what that makeup is and what they, where they even are,
right? Something that you might think is performative, like, you know,
food fun and festivities, right? Like we might think of the US that’s
very performative, but that might be something so big in a key milestone
within a country that has never done any of that work, right? And so you
really have to meet them where they are and celebrate their mind
milestones and celebrate their traditions and their holidays and share
that across. Um, what I also really liked, and I probably use as a
bible, when I first started going from, uh, the work, mostly from like a
US based and leading this global, uh, strategy was the culture map. So I
really looked at, um, countries and context leadership and communication
styles. And so when I went and I met with leaders either virtually or in
person, I did try to get into those offices as well. I really thought
about like, what are they telling me from a context perspective and what
am I not listening to, right? And also helping them think about, okay,
if you are a country leader and you have people from different
countries, the way that you lead will be very different. The way that
you communicate will be very different. And what works, you know, again,
in our US based leadership models might not work in our Asian based
leadership models. And just keeping that context in mind was really
important. As I worked with our different country leaders, I love that
we used to always say, think global, act local at my former
organization. So I think that’s a good way to build around it. One thing
I wanna dig in with you, um, a little bit more is around, around the
approach to measurement and accountability across that global scale.
’cause I think that’s where sometimes it gets toughed. How do we measure
our ROI or how do we know if this is working, um, if it looks so
different in different places. So do you have any, I guess, best
practices or tips with that Engagement surveys, right? So, uh, do you
have an annual engagement survey and do you have like an inclusion index
within that? Right? So are you looking at, um, you know, questions like,
I’m treated at x, y, Z company, uh, fairly regardless, uh, regardless of
my age, my gender, my, um, you know, whatever questions you can ask
legally within that context. ’cause some places you can’t, some
countries you can’t ask certain questions like sexual orientation,
right? But that’s like a really good indicator also the makeup of your
organization, right? So gender obviously is a key one, but gender within
leadership as well. So what percentage of your workforce is, uh, female
versus male? Um, and then the nuances of different countries. So you
really have to understand the makeup of that country and then see like,
does your workforce mirror that country makeup? I love that. I would, I
would, I would add to that I, uh, led or built a global HR function and,
um, the magic for us was making sure that we had in-country HR
professionals that understand the culture firsthand, understand the
labor laws, understand the tone of employee employment laws, and really
help to translate that into a US context so that we can understand and
make change, and then give it to the organization and to the company
based on that culture in that country. I love that. That’s so powerful.
And it, it kind of mentions what Lori’s talking about here in the chat
as well, um, making sure that there’s some type of cultural guides
within your right weekends. Um, so with that in the culture map, which
we’ll also post in the chat here, we certainly have a lot to build off
of. Um, now I wanna move things into what’s now and what’s next. So
let’s talk a little bit more about how this external environment has
changed, but the core of inclusion of course, hasn’t to Tonya, in your
opinion, um, what’s the most important shift leaders need to make right
now? So, um, I, you know, having led, um, and, and created a, a, an
organization which had a very much an inclusion focus globally, I,
because of all the changes that are happening within this country, and
by the way, these changes within the US are severely affecting the mood
and the culture in other countries. So it’s not like other countries are
not impacted at all. But what I found is there was a need to kind of get
my arms around it. And I’ve created this, um, integration, so an
inclusion integration wheel. And it basically says that there are six
things to pay attention to, and this is the here and now that you’re
asking about. You know, and just really quickly, you know, it’s
developing people. It’s, um, making sure that people know what their
place is. And I won’t go through all six of them. We actually have a
masterclass coming up and Zach will, will post that, but feel free to
join us and we’ll talk about it more. But your question about what needs
to shift, I would say a couple things. One is the mindset. We have a
zero sum philosophy right now that says if we think about profits, then
we cannot think about people too. And my belief, my core belief is that
people and profits and mission are not at odds. And you can do it all.
And if we think about then how do we care about our employees experience
as well as care about the profit that we’re achieving in this company,
we can do both. And that is a huge mindset shift that I wanna continue
that mantra for executive leaders. Amen. I love it. What about you,
MSVA? Anything else to add to that? Um, I think one of the speakers
talked about it earlier, it’s just embedding it into the business
operations, right? So how do you, uh, not be a standalone function or,
you know, usually it’s like one to three people that are doing the work,
right? And so how do you build across, I’ve done this work as a di
leader, uh, in a bunch of different departments. I’ve been in the PR
department, I’ve been in the marketing department, I’ve been in the HR
department, I’ve been in the legal department, I’ve been in the talent
acquisitions department, right? Like I’ve been doing the work across.
And so for me, the skillset that I learned is, it doesn’t matter where I
am at the end of the day doing the work, it’s how can I work with those
other business leaders to make sure that it’s embedded in their
strategy, right? And so that we have synergies across both of our
strategies. You’re working on it and I’m working on it, we’re doing it
together. And if I can get enough business partners, um, can, if I can
get enough of my strategies on their business partner, then it’s not
going away. It’s embedded into the organization and we’re accountable on
both ends. Absolutely. Yeah. DK just added, again, it’s embedded into
that DNA and once it’s there, it’s not going anywhere. Um, I think that
that’s so powerful. And I also know that we talked a little bit about
this and the idea of reframing versus reinventing. We don’t necessarily
need to always reinvent the wheel every time we approach DEI and the
work in this space. So Tanya, I’d love to hear a little bit more from
you, um, about your approach here. You know, I I, I think we’ve heard it
actually all day, um, about, you know, call it whatever you want to call
it, right? You don’t have to call it DEIB, if that feels polarizing. And
I think there’s a whole litany of, uh, terms when you think about
changing the organization, which is step two in the integration wheel,
but this change, change the conversation. Let people talk about it from
their own vantage point. How are you experiencing again, this
experience, this environment and, and personalize it? So there are some
things that I’ve talked about and I’ve changed the way that I’ve said.
So instead of, you know, equity, which can be polarizing, talk about
equality, you know, talk about fairness, talk about, you know, what’s
fair play and shared success and mutual respect and all those terms that
you really can’t argue with. And they don’t imply that we are going to
do something radical, you know? And so I have always, I’ve been saying
that really we’re not reinventing the wheel much of what we put in place
from an inclusion standpoint in terms of the practices that we have, the
ERGs that have been formed in the organizations, um, all of the, you
know, supplier organizations or, or strategies, none of that changes.
It’s just making sure that everyone feels like they are part of that
conversation and everyone has a place in it. You know, one of the things
that someone said to me one time is, you know, a white male said this to
me. I can look and see all of the diversity programs and want to be a
part, but I don’t know that I’m necessarily welcome into the
conversation. And that’s the point, right? Making sure that everyone
feels welcome, that no one is excluded and that we’re all part of the
solution. And again, you don’t have to call it DEIB, you can call it
whatever you want to choose A hundred percent. I’ve had similar
conversations in the past and it really makes me think about what Dan
was speaking about earlier, where is this resistance coming from?
Identifying the psychology behind it and then using that to reframe your
conversation, um, with the person. So I love hearing that. It’s almost
like we’re thinking like marketers here wearing every type of hat. Um,
and people Just wanna be a part of the conversation. Yeah, bring them
in, you know, let’s have everyone be a part of it. A hundred percent.
Um, I now wanna talk a little bit more about tools for these types of
conversations, because I myself have been taking all sorts of notes,
lots of books on my to read list here. And I know Miba you mentioned,
um, a course that you work on within your organization. So I would love
to know a little bit more about this civility in the workplace course
and how you’re actually helping your teams have these respectful but
also real conversations around identity, experience, um, culture and
almost approach that resistance that naturally is in place. Yeah. So We
have, um, three, uh, DEI or inclusion, diversity trainings that we offer
to all of our, uh, team members or employees. But this year, um, we
really wanted to have spaces where team members have the tools to have
conversations about a difficult topic, right? We know that they’re
bringing their authentic or their whole selves or their everyday selves
into the workplace. They’re having these conversations. And so we wanted
to provide them with tools on how to navigate the conversations. And
that’s really where the, the idea of civility in the workplace. And, and
there’s a lot of different, uh, topics around that. But really what
we’re trying to move away from, it’s not about a polite work
environment. It’s about having conversations and hearing the other
person. You don’t have to agree with them, you just have to understand
and be empathetic to their lived experiences that their thoughts, their
perspectives, right? Like, we need to be a welcoming and inclusive
workplace at the end of the day. And what that means is we’re gonna have
people from different backgrounds, experiences, and ideas, and we wanna
welcome all of those ideas, right? Um, not just the dominant group in
that office, but also the ideas that may be on the outliers, right? And
so how do we welcome those outliers into the conversations and how do we
give tools so that everyone can have these conversations within the
workplace? And one of the things that we, uh, focus on in that training
is this conversation controls, uh, conversation controversy scale, um,
based on the book Say The Right Thing by Kenji Yoshino and David
Glasgow. And really what it is again, is uh, a scale of five point scale
where uh, you can assess, okay, this is a fact, right? This to me feels
like a fact. I love pizza on, or I love pineapple on pizza, right?
That’s like a fact or a taste, right? Um, and then there are other
things that are more value or human, uh, equal humanity, right? And so
while there’s something that’s going on in like the world, maybe
immigration for some people might fall in the policies, right? It’s an
everyday that they’re seeing maybe on social media or on the news versus
for other team members, especially some of our team members that were
based in Los Angeles, it’s an everyday values or humanity issue, right?
Like they might have a team member or they might have an, uh, a person
at home that’s gonna get deported and that is like top of their mind.
And so they’re living and breathing it. And so the conversation
controversy scale really helped us understand like you are taking it
very personally because it’s your everyday lived experience versus for
me, it’s something that I’m just seeing on the news. And so I understand
it from a policy or politics perspective. I absolutely love that, taking
it personally ’cause it is personal to you. Um, and then also leaning
into, like you said, those uncomfortable conversations and just
acknowledging that, yeah, perspective is key in these instances. Um,
everyone is coming from a different place. Everyone’s coming from a
different starting point. So all really important, um, to acknowledge.
I’ll certainly be on the lookout for that book link here. Um, Tonja, is
there anything else you’d like to add to that conversation or any other
tools, um, that you found helpful? Yeah, so there are quite a few. The
one that I, you, you guys have probably heard of the intercultural. Um,
it’s IDI intercultural, uh, dimensions inventory that helps us
understand not just what the, um, dimensions are that value diversity,
but also how far we are from where we think we are. And that’s, that’s
tough. It’s tough to do the self work and I think that the self work has
to come first. And a lot of what we’ve been talking about today is
organizational, right? It’s about large efforts. And I think that that
needs to be coupled with the very, um, personal work that we all have to
do. And no matter what our love lived experiences are or our, you know,
seniority in organizations, we all have personal work to do. And the IDI
is a tool that I use, but there’s several. And I would just encourage
people really do that self-reflection, really go deep. Um, even if it’s
uncomfortable, sit with it a little bit because that’s gonna help you
bring your organization further along when you can empathize with other
people’s experiences in that sense. Absolutely love that. And I wanna
anchor this conversation here with humanity and let’s have a personal
reflection. ’cause obviously this work is tough. Um, sometimes it’s
unpopular. So I’d love to hear from the final words from you both one
mindset shift or belief that’s helped you stay committed to this work.
Even in times when it’s hard or unpopular. I’ll, I’ll go. Um, I, I, I
mentioned it earlier, but I have started to live by this, you know, no
zero sum philosophy that, um, even in the world of inclusion, there is a
sense that if we are focusing on, you know, uh, disabilities in the
workplace, that we then cannot focus on women, you know, and if we’re
focusing on, you know, our company’s profits and sales, then we can’t
focus on engagement and experience. I think we can do it all. And I
think that organizations should do it all and kind of owe it to their
employees to do it all. Um, because we wanna retain folks and that
really is the way to do it. So my no zero sum philosophy is really my
new mantra. I love that. Two things can be true. That’s right. What
about you, MSVA? This one was the hardest question to answer out of all
of that. Uh, you want 10, you want tactical, you want strategic, I got
you. You want me to look, look at the mirror and really think about it?
That one took me a while. So I really thought about why I got into this
work, right? Like, why did I choose this as a career? And for me it was,
you know, leaving the world a better place than when I started, right?
Like not having someone else go through the same lived experiences or
maybe some of those traumatic lived experiences that I had as a woman of
color, a woman that has a non-dominant religion, a woman of immigrant
parents, you know, all of those things stacked, uh, on my starting line.
And so for me it’s really like, how do I make sure that, uh, I leave the
world in a better place, hopefully for my son? Um, and so I really think
it’s, it’s, it’s easy to get lost in us versus them, right? Every single
day we’re like conditioned to think about us versus them. Whatever
context that is, it is so easy to get stuck in that mindset and e even
easier when you’re like going a thousand miles a minute, right? Um, and
so like just taking the time to get to know people on the individual
basis and like having a natural normal conversation and just saying
hello and welcoming curiosity and signaling that we’re like here to
understand and have mutual respect. I love it. I don’t think I’ve
stopped smiling this entire conversation. So thank you both so much.
Please can we give both of these ladies a huge round of applause, um,
for this powerful conversation that we’ve been having here. Um, I’m so
grateful for your insights, the tools, the tips that you’ve shared. I’d
love to keep those conversations going in the chat as well. So audience,
if there’s any tool, phrase or practice that’s helped you navigate
inclusion across these global or cultural contexts, um, please do share
them in the chat. And of course, please connect with both of these
ladies on LinkedIn, everyone says amazing fire emojis. So great job to
you both. Um, we’re gonna continue on with today’s session here as we
make up a little bit of time. Um, but thank you again for bringing home
how complex, but ultimately how human this work truly is. Zach, I’d love
you to join us as well so we can reflect on what we heard and continue
singing these praises. What’d you think? Well, That was amazing,
incredible job moderating that and, uh, just getting those two
powerhouse leaders to kind of share how they’ve been navigating these
things and doing these things internally. Uh, a couple things stood out
to me that I think all of you should definitely double down on. And
something I just kind of heard iterated over and over again is like how
important it is for your leaders and your people to lean in and engage
and share the responsibility on this topic, right? Because so often it
kind of falls on one person’s or one department’s kinda shoulders, and I
kind of heard from both of ’em, like, how do we enable our people to
also lean into having difficult conversations like the, the civility in
the workplace course that was shared or, you know, having some of those
difficult conversations. Um, and then as Tawana shared the integration
wheel and she shared a couple steps on that, which kind of brings me to
something that I do wanna just quickly share with the community as we
continue moving. Um, actually week with Leadership Network. If those of
you that are not familiar with this space within our community think of
achieving from some of but excellent level leadership network. And
that’s where we actually go into some deep dive discussions in the
peer-to-peer base. So these are all internal practitioners, I think
master masterclass style experience. We walk in this discussion and talk
is that those of you that wanna get out, uh, we’re gonna be doing a
class on that. You’ll be able to have to post questions, we other peer
exchanges, calendars, if you’re trying to get out or opening it up,
doing partnership, you just to check out before join change portion of
it next week with us. And then you can take that integration wheel and
actually have like the slides and the framework that you can then hit
the ground running with. So put the chat in there or put the link in
there too. You can scan that on the screen there as well. Um, but super
excited for that. Yeah, cla Clara, anything else on your end that stood
out from that discussion? No, I’m just so excited for this next session.
Um, and also I do think that end reminder of like why we show up and why
we do this work, it is so important to pause every now and then and know
that yes, this is heavy, this is hard. Um, there’s gonna be a lot of
difficult mo moments that happen with it, but to recenter yourself and,
and think about, you know, what made you show up in the first place. I
just really appreciate both Tonja and MEbA for sharing that with us. And
also just that reminder for us all as we continue to approach this work.

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