The Executive CPO Playbook: How CPOs Lead, Influence, and Drive the Business

All right everyone, what a way to kick off today’s program. I’m really
excited to come together as a community. Thank you for everyone who’s
already in the chat, sharing where you’re calling in from. If you
haven’t done that already, let us know. Where are you in the world
today? My name is Z Doms. I’m president at Achieve Engagement. I help
lead our community and bring together our network members and people
like yourself to really go through some of the changes in this
environment. How do we navigate the choppy waters of the employee
experience? And what does this look like, especially as we close up the
year and start to design new playbooks, new frameworks, new ways to
approach the world of work. So I feel very thankful that a lot of you
are taking time outta your busy schedules to join us and sharpen your
craft and develop yourselves and really work on these things as a
community. So as we’re doing that, make sure you’re engaging with each
other. Yes, we’re gonna hear from some amazing leaders, uh, who are in
the field doing this at a very high level today, but I think so much of
the additional learning can really come from all of you who are
attending. So share your own ideas, share your own playbooks, share your
own maybe resources that you’re leveraging in the chat, and we can
really make this a social learning experience. So I love what we got
going in here. Let’s see what we got. Angie, good to see you in here.
From southern California. Amy from Church Hill. We got Stacy in
California. We got Canton, Ohio. Adam from Zionsville, Indiana, Mexico
is in the house. Shauna from Central Illinois. Christopher, good to see
you in here. From San Francisco. Henley from Cape Town. That’s awesome.
Detroit, Michigan, San San Antonio, Irwin. I see you from la Daniel, I’m
from Chicago. This is so cool. I think having such a footprint like this
really enables like this expansive learning. And one thing I’m really
excited about today’s session, I was on the road last week. We did a
little bit of a road show in Austin, Boston, and New York. I see some of
you in the chat. You were with us this last week and just talking with
some of you people, officers, HR leaders who are thinking about the
future of this space. I don’t know the right, maybe there’s some
concerns, right? Like concerns about what does the future of this role
look like? What does the future of being a people officer really entail
with the rise of AI and its impact on some of the tasks and the work
that we typically would lead, uh, how do we lead effectively in this
kind of workforce that is coming into, into play in 2026? So I think
this is really timely for us. I think this is a really critical time,
this time of year to kind of close up and really think about how can we
go into next year with a more effective framework and strategy to one
position ourselves as executives to thrive and grow and sharpen our
craft, but also truly make an impact within the organizations we serve.
It’s gonna take some reinvention. So I’m excited to unpack like, what is
the executive CPO playbook and how do we lead, how do we influence, how
do we drive these business results? So that being said, let’s get to the
fun part. Let’s start to jump into this. I’m really excited to welcome
one of our, uh, partners in crime and I’d say friends of achieving
engagement. Adam Weber, executive coach, uh, today has done this work
internally in many ways for a long time as well. Uh, so I’ll let him
kind of introduce himself and some of the things we have planned. We
also have some awesome giveaways and gifts and things we’re excited to
announce. So that being said, let me stop sharing here. Adam, welcome.
Thanks for being here with us. Uh, appreciate you leading this
conversation with our community. So that being said, I’m gonna hand it
over to you. All Right, well, thank you Zach. Hey, everyone, it’s so
good to be with all of you today. Um, for those of you who don’t know
me, my name is Adam Weber. I was a Chief People officer previously, and
today I’m an executive coach. I help leaders, uh, sift through the chaos
of high stress jobs and find clarity and lead in human-centered ways and
help build these cultures that find the balance between high care and
high performance and learn to lead as your best self along the way. Uh,
and before I introduce the panel, I do have some pretty big news. This
webinar just happened to fall on like the very best possible day as this
webinar is sponsored by. Hi Bob. Um, hi. Bob has also launched their
brand new community this morning, and it’s called In Good Company. Uh,
and I’m one of the contributing members. I have a section that I’m
helping lead called the C-Suite. So if you’re a C-Suite executive or
Aspire to be a C-Suite executive, it’s a place where I’m gonna share
resources, uh, that I usually do in one-on-one sessions with clients,
but it’ll actually be a place where, uh, you can have access to ungated
resources there. So I’m gonna put it a link that is the signup link in
the chat. And if you actually, what I meant to do, sorry, I’m gonna do
this live. Um, there you go. Put the whole thing in there if you join
through that link. And then if you find a post of mine and put a book
emoji in there, uh, on one of my posts, I will mail you a free copy of
my book Lead like a human. Um, and for every single person that’s here,
if you put a book emoji on one of my posts inside of the community,
we’ll find it and we’ll figure out how to get you a book here as well.
So, uh, which is just so fun, the timing of all this as well. And then
we’ll actually post this recording in, in the, in Good Company community
as well. Uh, all right, enough of the, enough of the community promo,
it’s time to dive in. I’m just so excited about this session. This is
actually a session I have dreamed of doing for months, and I, I mean
that sincerely, because I’m joined by three really remarkable chief
people officers, Shauna Krasinski, who’s the chief people officer of
Midland States Bank, Ika Lamont, who’s the chief people officer of Vard.
And Amy Campbell, who is the chief people officer of Overhaul and just
wrapped up a 10 year run as the chief people officer now, who is a
consultant and coach as well. Uh, and a really fun fact, and something
I’ve never done. I’ve done many panels and I’ve never done this, but
these are all three clients of mine and people who we’ve worked with for
the past year, uh, on some of the topics that we’re gonna talk about
today. And so that’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna dive in and talk
about how to expand your influence from the chief people officer seat,
talk about executive communication, um, cross-functional, like
navigating cross-functional areas, breaking silos. This is an amazing
group of people to learn from. So I’m just so thrilled to introduce all
of them to you. Um, so first you all, I’m gonna go off script from the
very first. I, I actually had an onsite, I was telling everybody before
we hopped on with Shauna just two days ago. And on the way I pulled off
to a little roadside attraction, uh, that was the world’s largest
rocking chair. And I, I saw the world’s largest rocking chair on my way
to Illinois. And I was curious, and you, you don’t have to make it that
lame, what is one random or memorable attraction you have seen in your
life before we get into the meat of the topic today? Yeah, you’re
welcome for not getting any time to prep. That’s just a, that’s just
real time. I’ve got one. So, uh, and I’m from Illinois, so another
Illinois attraction for all of you, I’m sure you’re super curious after
you hear this, you’re gonna have to come see it for yourself. But in
southern Illinois, there is the world’s largest bottle of ketchup. Um,
and so I just, I just want you to know, Kazie Illinois, where the, um,
the largest rocking chair was, is not the only place with all the large
things. So there is a very large bottle of ketchup, uh, down towards,
um, Collinsville, Illinois. So check it out sometime. Is the ketchup
still in the bottle or is it in Cheese? I’m not sure. I’m not sure.
Okay. Okay. Wait, so this have to be in like the area in which I reside
in? No, no, this is, you have full freedom to go wherever you want right
now. Oh, well, like the, I would say the coolest attraction I’ve gotten
to see is the Taj Mahal. Seen, seen it a number of times actually in my
lifetime, being that I’m Indian and I do travel back there. And it is
definitely one of the seven wonders of the world for a reason. It’s
beautiful, incredible. I’m gonna go back remarkable too, sorry, because
I cannot think of a single random thing, but, and definitely not local
to me, although I wish that it was local to me, is I love France and I
love, I’m a big cyclist, so I love the Tour de France. And the first
time I saw Mom tu in France, I couldn’t even make sense of what my eyes
were seeing. It was just magnificent. The giant of Provence was
remarkable. I mean, has there ever been a beginning question to a
webinar that covered the world’s largest ketchup and the to hall alge?
Like, we’re we, we’re here, we’re with it. Uh, yeah, feel free to put in
the chat. Um, like the, the largest Easter egg Well done and the to
Hall. So yeah, if you have one that stands out to you, feel free to put
it in the chat too. Um, let’s dive into it though, first talking about
like expanding your influence from HR to the full business. And I think
one of the things that you all have done is really become, um, real
business partners inside of the organization. And so wanted to start
with like, when you first realized from the chief people officer role
this need to lead beyond HR to be effective in your role. Oh, you’re on
mute. Sarka, you’re on mute. Of course, I am. Do you think after all
these, We’ll just, let’s just all stay off mute the whole time that way,
that way It’s okay. Yeah, it’ll be easier. I never know when my dog, my
dogs start making noise. Don’t blame me Unless the dog starts barking.
Yeah, Yeah. You know how it is. You’ve been on a co a couple of sessions
with me. Um, I’m happy to start. Uh, let’s see. So I would say the mo
that for me, that moment came in realizing that people’s strategies
should not live in isolation. And oftentimes the ones that fail and or
my experience when I have failed in that regard, coming up with like the
most, the most amazing strategy. And the deck was all there. And I was
like, I got this. I looked at all this data and here I am, but it was
completely divorced from where the business was at and what the business
needed. Mm-hmm. And, but it was always in this mindset of like, oh, but
it’s people first. And like everyone talks about how people first is how
you’re gonna drive business outcomes. Um, but I think, you know, when I
was sitting in a meeting, a leadership meeting years ago, and a lot of
the conversation was discussing like missed revenue targets and, and
there were points in time where I, you know, it was like, oh, this isn’t
about me. And then I just almost had to like, take a moment to snap out
of it and reframe, because while that conversation was all about
numbers, no one was really connecting the dots between like, okay, but
that does tie back to like accountability, um, you know, missed
expectations or maybe a lack of clarity in, in, in a, in a person’s
expectations. Um, understanding how the teams were and were not
operating and, and where does that leave us in the world of execution?
Like, are we doing this well? Are we not doing this well? Where does
performance fit into that? And so I think the more I really paid
attention and really thought through like my role in that conversation,
there’s been times in the past where I’m like, oh, that has nothing to
do with me. And I’ve been called out and I’ve had a really great coach
to really help me sort of rethink and reframe the power of like, people
through business or your business through, through people rather than
just like people first. And sort of reframing my thought process there.
And so immediately it was like, okay, well what business problem are we
trying to solve? And where would, where should my team focus? Where
would a people strategy help to accelerate that? And I think the more I
started thinking about the business first, and then how the people
strategy or what I would be focused on with my team could really
accelerate, um, driving the outcomes that we desire. That mindset shift
for me is really, is what I think has really made the shift for me and
pivot for me from just a, you know, maybe just a senior leader that sits
on the call to like really having real impact and, and really finding my
way into that chief people officer seat seat where I feel like, okay, I
have a place in here and I don’t just feel like I’m an afterthought to
the rest of the executives. That’s awesome. 100% people through the
business, and I think it’s in the title, right? People officer, and
they’re just all of the human and people factors that impact performance
across the business. And I don’t think I realized that lens was not as
present in the corporate world. I thought it would be more apparent in
the corporate world, but going into the corporate world and seeing that,
I had this realization of, oh, not everybody else is thinking this way.
And actually few people are thinking this way in the business world. So,
you know, you think about those human factors of rest and meaning and
purpose and clarity. All of those things are so important for people to
be engaged and be able to perform. Um, my roots are actually, my deepest
roots are in psychology. That was like my whole first chapter of my
career where they drill systems theory into you. And basically I’m
oversimplifying where it’s like, if you move X, then it’s gonna have an
impact on Y and C. So I think that it’s just really the literal piece in
the title. Um, and really thinking about, okay, what are all of these
human factors that are directly correlated to the business? And using
that language too, and the business to make sense. That’s great, Shauna.
Yeah, I was just gonna add to what Amy said too, in terms of, you know,
people in the corporate world maybe not thinking this way in, in terms
of what they’ve both said with, you know, people, officers being
involved and really understanding the business and aligning people goals
and talent strategy to the business. Um, I think for me, this, you know,
this kind of moment of clarity came when I started to realize talent
strategies aren’t gonna be successful. They can’t solve the growth
problems and, and, um, the solve for the, the business goals alone when
they’re not connected to, um, customer experience, to pricing, to
marketing, you know, to, to different frameworks in, in other areas of
the organization. And so for me, I started to, when I had this
realization, I instantly wanted, I was curious to know more. So I wanted
to be a part of, of business reviews. I wanted to sit in on discussions
about pipeline management and, you know, understanding these things
deeper. Um, not so that I could come to those meetings to talk about
people, but to understand what was either driving or blocking results
for the organization. Mm-hmm. So I think that shift from kind of HR
leader to, to, you know, business operator is, is really critical. I
think it’s also important ’cause it’s easy when you sit in the seat and
you’ve like, look, I don’t think we have it all figured out, but figured
out enough to be able to make that transition to the executive role.
It’s like a lot of folks on this call might be like, okay, but how did
you do that? How did you understand the business? How did you connect
those dots? How do you get enough information and um, and context to
know how to actually connect people’s strategy with business strategy?
And I would say like, this is where like you getting to know the, your
various functional leaders in the, and the business leaders inside the
business and spending time with them and, and feeling like you’re
building enough of a trusting relationship, which you can raise your
hand and be like, Hey, could, can I just ask a question? Like, it may be
stupid. I just, I, and look, I really wanna understand this. And so
that’s why I’m asking whether you do that, whether you’re comfortable
enough to do that in an open forum or in a larger sort of leadership
meeting. Or you’ve built enough of those relationships to sit down with
some of those leaders one-on-one and just say, maybe you have like an
ongoing one-on-one, maybe you don’t. But it’s building those
partnerships at the ground level with those leaders and building enough
of a trusted relationship that you can ask the questions and, and, you
know, you don’t, and a lot, I’ll tell you, like nine times outta 10 in
my career, even when I was younger in my career, I often found that
there are leaders are, are they are looking for any excuse to talk about
their business, right? And to talk about what’s working and what’s not
working, um, and looking for that trusted partnership in and out of the
people team. But a lot of folks are willing to lean in and help. A lot
of folks are willing to answer those questions. A lot of folks wanna see
you succeed. And so when you’re trying to think about like, how do I
even get to that point? It’s building those relationships and asking
questions like, stay super curious or joining, like Shauna said, join in
one those meetings, like forecast meeting, pipeline meetings, marketing
meetings, dev meetings, like sit in one of those things. Most of the
times people don’t actually mind. Mm-hmm. That’s awesome. I do, I do
think there’s so much to, there’s one thing you also said in just like
asking questions like that thoughtful question from a, from a chief
people officer, sometimes that just can shift the vantage point just
enough because so many, even high level executives that own functions
are so focused on their function and the tactical execution, even when
they’re leading at a really high level in a large org, that reminder of
the people dynamics that are underneath it, it sometimes like activates
a part of their brain and now all of a sudden they’re like, okay, I’m
collaborating now. Like, I’m in this with you. We are, we are kind of
shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm versus like, you know, kind of against
each other, that sort of thing. Do, do any of you have examples of when
you really did this, like where you were able to truly like weigh in on
an area finance product go to market that started the, maybe it was at
the beginning of reshaping, um, how your value was perceived on the
team? I think I have a little bit of an interesting and maybe unique
vantage point in this, because when we started our company, when I
started with the company, we were a team of five. So it was, it’s just
wild. Everybody does every role, right? Um, which I would say also gives
you a really unique, um, and valuable perspective on things. But my role
was always intended to be focused on people. It was just getting to that
stage. But I do remember having a discussion about products way out of
people, operations products and seeing, we were working on developing an
app and I remember seeing like the, the UI and the us and the how to
pieces within the app. And immediately back to that people part, I was
like, oh, wait a minute. This is not the way people’s brains work to be
able to learn something, right? So putting my voice out there around
that, but then also taking and investing the time. Let’s do a focus
group. Five people gimme one hour and let’s see what they have to say
about it. Um, but it really did connect back to the how do people think
and how do people work and how do their brains work and what do they
need? Um, really filtered into that. Let’s think about how that plays
into actually our products and how we’re structuring them. Another
example I think I would, I would give Adam, is, um, incentives. So I
work in financial services. We deal with a lot of different incentive
plans and, and things like that in terms of compensation. And so, you
know, this is something that’s can often be thought of in terms of a
finance issue, right? And dealing with, um, you know, the complexities
of what the plan is, you know, incentivizing. Um, but at its core, and
back to the psychology comment that, that Amy made, it’s really about
behavior and alignment, right? So, um, I think for, not only for myself,
but even our director of total rewards, I think we sort of help the
company reframe those discussions through that lens, um, about, you
know, human behavior, about do we have alignment with frontline
salespeople? Um, you know, all way up to the president of the
organization. And so we’re able to sort of help maybe finance, sales,
um, HR meant even, um, come together to design plans that are, you know,
motivating the right outcomes. Um, and really positions, you know, HR
more in terms of that business partner, business catalyst more so than,
you know, just a plan administrator that, you know, might have been
thought of 20 or 30 years ago, Right? You’re getting at that intrinsic
motivation of the team as well. Mm-hmm. They, um, one thing I was
thinking of this, like sitting in on meetings, I think Sarka you were
talking about earlier, like there was a, a moment, um, for me where I
was just doing like observations of each of the teams ex of each of our
executives and noticed, like in our, um, customer success team, like
when I was, when I watched the meeting, I was like, oh my gosh, this VP
is so stressed that he’s, those the meetings are starting stressed and
just being able to come alongside and go, Hey, can I give you some
feedback on this? People like Sean, like you’re saying this people
motivation side and like what it might feel like to start your week by
having your manager offload your stress on them versus creating clarity
and motivation on the team. You know, and you, it’s, it’s like, is that,
it’s, it’s not traditional hr, it’s, it’s creating, it’s upleveling that
leader and then it’s unlocking that team, you know, kind of in through
that, through that process as well. Um, Sarka, do you have anything on
this one that, any Example? Yeah, I mean, sort of ties back a little bit
to what Shauna was talking about in terms of, you know, incentives,
compensation, you know, we’ve made, we’ve made pivots in our own
organization over the few years I’ve been here. And we, you know, did
one not that long ago that was more of a go-to market shift in terms of,
you know, pivoting from more of a high touch enterprise motion to more
of a product led growth mode, growth led motion with elements of things
that are automated. And so, you know, if you were to just look at it on
paper, like really quickly, you would probably immediately be like, oh,
this is sales product market. This has nothing to do with me. But when
you like, take a second and, and you know, you’ve done this enough
times, you start to really think about actually if you look underneath
it, that there’s like a huge capability and mindset shift that will
likely take pace, take place, and impact probably everybody across all
those teams that are being impacted by such a shift. So I was able to be
a different sort of different sort of expert in the room asking
questions that I knew that none of them were gonna really be thinking
about, which is like, do our teams have these skills to make this shift
and to like, do this productively and successfully? Like, and in what
timeline do we are, do we have the right incentives in place in our, you
know, comp models and our plan and our variable plans to operate in this
type of model and incentivize the right type of behaviors or skills,
right? And it’s okay, like, sales folks are driven by their incentives.
They’re driven by, you know, um, making money on their deals. And so
it’s okay to leverage. I mean, that’s, that’s their, that’s who they
are. And so, you know, lean into that, um, you know, but also how are we
defining success and accountability across each function? So, you know,
it was a good opportunity for people to ask a lot of those questions.
And you know, you almost immediately see pe people’s faces be like, oh
yeah, I hadn’t thought about that. That’s actually a really good point.
We hadn’t gotten to that yet. And so working with finance, working with
the GTM leaders in, you know, collaboratively to monologue what, you
know, the potential compensation and performance implications might look
like, um, and then using that as an input to like, okay, here’s what we
need to do differently with the rollout plan. Let’s do this as more of a
phased approach. Let’s really think about change management. ’cause at
the end of the day, we’re talking about people and changing the hearts
and minds and skills of people to do this work. Um, but it, you know,
what it did in that moment was my peers didn’t look at me as just some
like transactional HR person. And remember, a lot of people come into
these environments with a lot of PTSD, I still hear it like, you know,
sorry, I didn’t have an HR leader or an HR team like you. Like they were
not our friends. And I was like, well, I, I wouldn’t classify me as like
a, I’m your friend, but like, I’m here to like, find the intersection
between business and people and making sure we can all work together and
I can pay you make money and be able to pay you. Um, but I think, you
know, jokes aside, I think they looked at me as someone like, oh wow,
having soccer, having someone from her team in the room will help to
de-risk some of these big decisions and big pivots we’re making. And
then that immediately got me a lot more credibility in and outta those
rooms such that when they then were having ongoing different types of
conversations about product strategy, more changes within GTM, they,
their immediate like thought process was like, oh, we gotta get HR in
the room. We gotta get sarka the business partner in the room because
they’re gonna see things that we might not think about. Um, and I think
that was like a pretty cool, and, and, you know, big pivotal moment. It,
it, you know, at my current organization, but I’ve, I think one that
I’ll take with me pro probably anywhere. Yeah. That, that’s awesome. Um,
any, any examples? It’s okay if not, but where you got it wrong, where
you, where you did try to expand, but maybe you were like, all right,
hey, like, I need to honor this is somebody else’s space. Or just like,
it didn’t quite go the, you know, go in an ideal way as you, as you were
trying to, I call it a kid wearing clown shoes where you’re like, I’m
going to expand my influence. And then sometimes in that process, right,
of trying new things, you find out where those lines are, or it just
doesn’t quite go the way that you want it. Any any examples of that? I
feel like I do this all the time. You’re like, that’s specialty, that
part’s easy. No, like, Not in a bad way, but you know, it’s like I, you
know, I get a little passionate and like to move it a little bit speed
if I don’t think we’re moving with speed and urgency. I think one time,
early on, probably before I built trust and credibility, I challenged
something on like our product roadmap. Um, and it was pretty clear that
like I wasn’t, I wasn’t fully understanding the roadmap and where we
really wanted to be more vertically focused in the way that we were, um,
you know, going to market with our product. And I was thinking other
types of products that were similar in nature that were a bit broader,
more general use cases, and where I thought would be more advantageous
to go down. And they were like, you don’t know what you’re talking
about. Like, we don’t even do that. Like, that’s not what we do with the
product. And it was like, oh, okay, I’m gonna, you know, I’m just gonna
sit here and be quiet. But, um, you know, what was cool about that? It
was early on, um, I had a leader follow up with me afterwards that said
like, Hey, no harm, no foul. Like you’re learning and get it. Like, I
actually appreciate your like, passion to like lean in, but like, let me
explain a little bit more to you, like sort of the approaches that we’re
taking and why. Um, and while like your idea wasn’t a bad one, it’s just
like not in the context of where we are choosing to go within the
business more vertical versus horizontal. And then like in that, like, I
learned so much. And you know what’s funny? We’re talking about
horizontal use cases now. So how full circle, it’s come almost three
years later. Uh, you’re like, I was right. You saved it. So you wrote it
down and you were like, remember when I said this? Yeah. I was just a,
I’m a visionary. Exactly. Trust me, you, you know, Adam, I use that
moment to be like, remember that time? And they’re like, not, not, not
the time. Sorry, God. I’m like, oh, okay. Um, but also it’s okay. Like
guys, I, at least not in my job, I’m not like, you know, I’m not, you
know, doing brain surgery or rocket science. Like it’s okay. Um, and it
was a great funny story that we tell and it’s also like a great way to
like build relationships and, you know, seeing this leader, you know,
come over and like, send me a slack and be like, Hey, don’t worry about
it. Like, okay. I immediately created such a great relationship with
this individual that I still have a great partnership with. And we’ve
done a tremendous things, things together. I made a ton of impact
together ’cause of that thing early on in my first year or six months of
being here at this organization. So it’s not always a bad thing,
especially if you have solid people around you. Yeah, I think the
pattern for me in doing this, honestly, is around benefits early on in
my career, so not outside of my area, but I was just so passionate about
advocating for people and like my ideals around providing, uh, great
benefits for people that I would push, push and push without hearing
like the finance aspect around that or where, what stage, the wider like
wider stage that the business was actually in to be able to support the
benefits. Mm-hmm. So I’ll hold on my end and say, I’ve pushed really
hard for benefits that just made no sense for the company at the time,
but I’ve learned, right? I learned a lot from that. And I went just echo
what? So it just said it is okay, right? It’s okay to do those things.
Um, and sometimes you do get a yes, but sometimes you get a reasonable
no and you have to change course versus digging in around it. I’ve had
similar experience, Amy with in, in terms of benefits, as you said, that
I kind of maybe had a little eye twitch start to develop. ’cause I, you
know, I was thinking of a prior situation, but, um, and when I think
about that case, it’s like that that was a, you know, a minor misstep,
but it was because maybe I wasn’t, um, I wasn’t fully understanding the
context or the constraints, you know, of, of, you know, what the terms
were in the business. And so, um, I think about just in general, if I’ve
had these moments, it’s usually because I’m maybe just offering my
feedback a little too soon. So kind of that reminder to like, like, you
know, lead with curiosity, ask all the questions, you know, really
understand the context, um, before you, uh, contribute and kind of put,
put the, uh, put the bold idea out there, if you will. Yeah, there’s
some, there is a connection come to the earlier part of our
conversation, just this, like the critical nature of really
understanding the business deeply and like how the business makes money
and what the top priorities are of the business. And then like
internalizing that and then that then shaping all other work that you
know, that you’re doing as well. And in some, I mean that it, in some
ways that sounds, it sounds so simple, but I think a lot of people early
in their career that is not, it’s not that innate to kind of understand,
start thinking about the business as a whole. At first you’re just like,
I need to get my own function. Like I’m focused on just kind of like
executing my function. So I wanna, um, shift and talk about executive
communication, which is a topic that comes up a lot. Um, and a fun
little plug for the, uh, community. By the way, I am just realizing this
real time. I created a template for chief people officers in executive
team meetings to, and how they prepare. Uh, and I did just, I posted it
in the community. So it’s a free resource, it’s ungated. So if you are
interested in, as you’re putting together like new ideas for the
executive team, it’s a good template to follow. Um, but, but this chief
people officer role, which I do view as different than like the, the
kind of chief human resource officer role and, and on an executive team
and how you show up for that one team. So when you’re in the executive
room, I’m just always really curious about the development of all of you
in that moment. Like of how your communication, your, your communication
in the executive room has evolved as your time, um, as an executive from
like when you started to like where you are today. I’ll jump in on this
one. Um, Adam, this is something that you and I have talked about a lot.
And so, um, you know, if anyone who knows me, I, I’m an Enneagram five,
I am the, uh, I, I want to know all the things about everything, and I
sometimes can assume that other people want to know all the things as
well. And so I think the biggest shift I’ve made in the CPO role is
shifting from heavy, heavy information updates to more insight based
updates. So data driven insights, um, especially with our board, but
also with the executive team. I really try to frame things, you know,
real succinctly into kind of three parts these days. So, you know, what,
what are the facts? What is true? Um, what does, what does this mean? So
what’s my interpretation? What are the implications of this? And then
what are we doing about it? So, you know, thinking about business is
very, you know, in very simple terms, we’re we’re just here to solve
problems. And so really boiling it down to what’s, what are the facts?
What’s the current state? What does that mean for the business? And then
what are we doing about it? Um, so just keeping it concise, but also
inviting real conversation just instead of just sort of surface level
updates where you’re just trying to get them to ingest all the
information because, you know, I mean, I’m sure. And what does that look
like? The, tell me about the, I love the like, flow you said, which is
like current state, what it means, what are we doing mm-hmm. What we’re
doing about it. But then there’s this other part that I’m hearing it’s a
little bit invitational. What can, like for others to, what, what ways
are you trying to get their participation? I mean, I think certainly
asking insightful questions and that’s, that’s something, um, Adam knows
this, that’s something that I’ve really worked on is asking the right
questions. Even with the board, I think we forget at times that others
are very hungry to sort of feed into people’s strategies and, and, and
talent as well. And so I think that’s a little bit humbling, but it’s
like, it’s, you know, sort of inviting others with insightful questions,
giving them space, making sure that you’re, you know, for, for me, that
looks like I, we have a number of people on our executive team that
wanna get the information ahead of time, so I make sure they get it
ahead of time so that when we’re in the room together, that it can be
more about the dialogue and not just, you know, me covering. Okay, slide
one, slide two, slide three. It’s not that at all. It’s, it’s more of a
discussion. Okay. Let’s take the discussion where, you know, the most
salient points are, Oh my goodness, I could relate it Shauna, when you
were talking about sharing of information. Thank you. I definitely have
moved from being kind of like more execution and like teaching focused
in those meetings to more relational and inspirational. I love and
really try to live by the quote, it’s a James G March quote of
leadership involves a delicate balance of plumbing as well as poetry. So
try to stay away from the plumbing because I’m much more prone to go to
the plumbing and really focus on the poetry more. Uh, leaders need
inspired the same way that all of our teams do. They need to see that
aspirational vision. The other thing that comes to mind with this is, I
have tried really hard over the years to completely reject the
traditional ideas of like executive presence where I have to know all of
the answers. I’m really self-assured. I have to be very charismatic. And
if I think about the leaders that I have respected the most, and I wanna
follow, they’re the people who are aware that they have blind spots and
they realize that they don’t know all of the answers. And they’re
lifting the voices in the room of the people who do have, like,
expertise in the different areas. And sometimes they’re saying, I have
no idea, and this is such a complex problem, we need to spend some time
and think about this. So I think I really over the years, have really
stepped into to like my own agency and own personality and executive
communication, um, honored the introvert in me more and more. So I just
feel like there’s that piece to where you, where I I should say, have
settled a lot more into honoring who I am, which has made my
communication so much more effective in the team. Amy, I love that
honoring who you are. I think a lot of times in HR we, we don’t do that.
And I would say, like, even for me, like if, if I look at this even a
couple years ago, um, and Adam has been on this journey with me for
sure. Um, you know, first as a friend and then as a, as a, a coach, um,
was, I think I always came at it from a place of imposter syndrome. Like
always thinking from the lens of like, I have to give as much
explanation and as much data and as much context and all the things
because it was less about what is the message I’m actually trying to get
across? What’s the impact that I and my team are trying to make for the
business? And it turned into that. But then, but how do I also prove to
them that I know what I’m talking about and they need to like, trust me
and I should have all this credibility that I don’t maybe have yet. And
um, so it, it was like all of that, just sort of just like, blah, blah,
blah. And so then they, they were always so overwhelmed. So like, okay,
but sarka, what are you trying to tell us? Like, we get it, we get,
there’s a lot going on, but like, what is the point? What is the
message? Something I also do actually, this happened this morning. Like
I got a influx of information that I felt like was important context
before we were gonna go into a, a pretty like intense two hour el you
know, executive meeting. And I have to tell my CEO upfront like, Hey,
this is going to be first part me sort of data dumping, but venting a
little bit to you because you are, you are my boss, but so like you are
who I get to talk to and like, I need coaching from sometimes. And then
I’m gonna go into like, okay, but then we’re gonna go right into like,
here’s what I think we need to do. Here’s solution, here’s whatever.
Right? And I, and he, you know, I said, I had to preface that ’cause he
will be the fir what are you trying to tell me? Like what is happening?
Um, but he also equally knows I am a pretty passionate, emotional
person. I’m an empath. That’s an important part of my job that I think
people relate to. But there’s a time and place when I turn that on and
off. And I’m not saying I turn my empathy off, but there’s a time in
place where I let that shine through more than like maybe more of the
okay. Like get laser focused on exactly what I’m trying to to do. A lot
of times what I do to help myself is I sort of like the Amazon way,
which I hate saying, but like, I like their, I like that they do things
in docs and I think it’s a little too cumbersome. So I try to get to
like, I gotta be able to share with them a one on one page, the point
I’m trying to get across, right? Because while I might have a lot of
things I need to get across to this team, there are different ways that
I gotta do that. And data dumping a whole bunch of different things I
need decisions on in one meeting isn’t gonna do it. I’m gonna lose them.
And so like today, I had something that I knew I needed to get a
decision on and I didn’t wanna make it in a vacuum. I put I, Adam and I
had a coaching call about it yesterday. We sort of talked it through, he
let me data dump, it’s great reason to have a coach. And then I took
some time to think about it and I’ll be, I’ll admit, I data dumped a
bunch of stuff into my chat. GPT, I have a whole little thing, a little,
um, particular area that focuses on things just like this. And I’m like,
here’s what I’m trying to get across. Here’s what I’m trying to make
sense of. I wanna put together a doc and this is how I use it as a
co-pilot. I’m not cheating, but like I need sometimes to get my thoughts
organized. Yeah. And it’s not easy to do when you are at a high, when
you are an executive and you’re dealing with a lot of emotions. You’re
dealing with a tough macro environment, you’re dealing with a tough
environment in your own business. Like all the things are happening,
we’re humans too. It’s been a great, like, you know, um, partner did
that, put a document together, I like, you know, really had to whittle
it down. And I said, here are the two options. Here’s why. Here’s my
recommendation. One page go. I got that decision from them in literally
less than five minutes. It’s like the record. I was like, this is
amazing. I was like, and now this is what I’m gonna go do and this is
what you’ll have in your inbox, you know, by 5:00 PM today and then
whatever. Right? But it in the past, mm, it would’ve been, but all the
data, right? So Right. That’s what I was gonna say. I think that’s
what’s like so interesting about that is I think it’s really tempting
early to feel like the plumbing to Amy’s point is to show all the
plumbing, right? It’s like, come with all the data and you think that
that is like, I want them to know that I really, and there is an art to
simple, simple communication takes a lot of work. Um, it does. And what
a time to be alive with IGPT. It is great where you can create some
simplicity, but that, and when we reduce it to the essence, we get, we
often get buy-in faster versus hesitation and overwhelm and, and now I
need to know everything. And then behind that I will say, you gotta have
your plumbing, you gotta have it. It’s, but you don’t need to show it,
right? It’s, yeah, just real time sha Shauna, like, I was just at
meeting with Shauna’s team this week and we tried to create present to
their executive team a really simple deck, right? Which is, but to get
to simple behind it pages of data and metrics and analytics. And I was
like, none of it’s being shown, right? But it is all there in case we
need it, it’s our backup. But that is a, it’s a, it’s an additional step
that I would say is actually the, one of the very most commonly missteps
for exec, for especially for new executives, is that extra translation
of like, oh, my job and I get in this room is to pare it down, is to get
it to its core essence. So, so good. You all. Anything else on this, on
this? Is there any way that you all prepare differently today than you
did two years ago, for example, for an executive team meeting or board?
I think board counts too. Go ahead Sean. I’ll take that one. And, and
Adam, this is credit to you and it’s actually something my, our entire
executive team is doing now because I shared with them what you, what
you challenged me with is Adam once said to me about a, a board me a
prepping for a board meeting. How do you wanna show up for this meeting?
And in that moment I was like, what, what are you talking about? Like,
I, you know, I’ve been working on this deck for, you know, three weeks
and I wanna show the deck. I have the deck, I, you know, I’m gonna know
my speaking points. I’m gonna, you know, blah, blah, blah. I’m gonna be
all prepared. And but how do you wanna show up? And so that’s, that’s
the differentiator for me, I would say in the last year or so. Is it
taking the time as part of preparation to be intentional about the tone
that I wanna set, about the approach that I wanna model. And it gives me
that license to like own my presence through that intentionality is that
was a game changer for me. And just, it’s so simple, but it’s something
that, you know, I was just so focused on, oh, the slides and you know, I
gotta be prepared to answer the questions that are gonna come up and
things like that. But it’s like, okay, but, but how do you wanna be seen
in the room? You know what, when you think about your presence, what do
you wanna offer? And I think that’s really powerful. 100% Dito. Shada, I
feel like I take a lot more time to just center myself honestly. I, I
make time for that. It’s so easy in our roles just to jump from thing to
thing to thing, right? I have to take that five minutes to sit down, do
some deep breaths, think about my intention. And the other thing that’s
changed is just the mindset. Y’all, the board, they’re just people too.
So, right. Like, uh, you can show up as a person, they’re just people
too. I think I put the same amount of effort into those presentations, I
just sweat a lot less about it. Um, and I’m a lot more present than I
used to be because I took intentional steps to be present in those
meetings. Yeah, I love this. I think deciding in advance who you want to
be, there’s, I think the reason why those things are so helpful is
because your role is so labor intensive. Like innately, you just have a
lot of responsibilities and your altitude, we’ve, I know I’ve talked
about this with all of you, but like, it’s easy to get your altitude at
the wrong level. Like if a plane, you know, you’re flying at 5,000 uh,
feet ’cause you’re just like trying to solve problems and triage an
employee issue and a couple management people aren’t developing the way
you hoped and you’re just like constantly in that mode. And then you
have to hop out of it and show up to this exec, you know, with that high
level altitude. And I think intention is the way to help your brain
really help you decide who you wanna be. Um, and I’ve done, I mean,
breath work is so helpful. Mantras with, you know, like picking a phrase
that you say to yourself I think is really helpful. Look, I’m not even,
I do power post stuff myself. Like I, when I raised money for my old
startup and I was like, I’m from rural Indiana originally, right? And
I’m flying out to New York City and mega investor and there was no, uh,
ac it was in the summer, there’s this, the AC went out, I’m like,
profusely sweating in the suit. I was like, I’m not ready to like stand
in my confidence, you know, and like succinctly share my pitch. I went
into the bathroom and did like 10 deep breaths and stood did the
Superman pose. I was like, I’ll do whatever it takes to show up the way
that I want. But it it, there’s an intentional part to that. I think
that it doesn’t just happen. Like you have agency to decide how you want
to be perceived and what, what energy you bring into that room as well.
Hmm. Where do we, okay, so there was one thing you all said that it
reminded me, um, of my friend Todd Richardson, who was the chief people
officer at my old company before I took that role. And one of the things
he was, he was a chief people officer at Exact Target, which a
Salesforce company years ago and then now is, um, he’s the COO of I
Indiana University, but one. And so he is been in these really high
pressure environments, really intense environments through the
Salesforce acquisition, that sort of thing. And one thing I felt like he
did really well in the chief people officer role across all of these
different, um, is he really humanized, he helped create a more human
environment for the executives and the boards that he like. I think he,
he had this way of disarming people to go, yes, I still have, I have
great competence, like I know my stuff, but also we’re all real people
here too. And he almost took that part of his job as the chief people
officer was to humanize the experience in the room as well. Um, and so I
do wanna talk just a little bit about the room, that executive room and
how we try to humanize the room, but also raise the bar of expectation
for others in that room too. So do you, do you have ways that you, that
you try to humanize kind of that experience for, for the other
executives or ways that you raise the bar of accountability or raise the
bar of candor like in the executive room? I, you know, I just, this, I
don’t know if this is, I think people have gotten used to it, but like I
just try to be really candid and direct. Um, I use humor a lot. If it’s
like something that feels like it might, you know, um, bubble up some
tension in the room or find something that I know is like, raise some
conflict even between functions that are represented in that room. Um,
so like I’ll often use humor and it’s just like my way and people I
think are kind of used to that. But I think being direct and being
candid and kind has like always been my approach. Um, you know, like a
lot there’ll be things where you’re like, we’re trying to get to a
decision on something and then we end up, we all do it, we end up sort
of spiraling and kind of dancing around the core issue or the core thing
we’re trying to make a decision about. Um, and so there’ll be moments
where I, you know, I feel a lot more comfortable being able to sort of
like raise my hand and be like, okay. But like I feel like we’re sort of
dancing around like the real issue. And I also do these things where I
talk to a lot of my leaders and my executives like obviously out of the,
you know, in one-on-ones and I might hear something and I find like a
really way, I find like a non, um, intimidating way to sort of bring it
up or be like, Hey, I’ve observed this even though it’s like something
that the CFO told me like two hours before. Um, but I might say like,
I’ve observed a little bit of this, like just chuck it in. You know. So
I try to do a little bit of that, like socializing and maybe connecting
the dots of things that other people aren’t seeing, knowing that there’s
like tension between the room. So then we get in the room, I think
people have sort of like been able to get some of that off their chest
and then when they’re in the room, they’re kind of coming in with a bit
more of a clean, not a clean slate, but just like, they’re not feeling
as like they have all this pent up energy they have to get out. ’cause
they’ve been able to get some of that out. And I feel like that has
really helped when we’re in the room. Um, you know, one thing that my,
you know, actually when I was positioning myself to become this first
CPO, Adam knows this, like, I, one thing they wanted me to do was like
talk to each of the, you know, to the CXOs and, you know, one thing they
did say is like, you’re one of ’em said, you’re a really great
connector. And like validating that like, that’s a really important job
of A CPO and not all CPOs can do it or will do it, but like being able
to be that connector in and out of the room. But being able to do that
effectively out of the room by building those relationships allows for
in the room discussions to go a bit more seamlessly. And it’s easier for
me, I think I get a little more, more credibility when I’m trying to
kind of hold people accountable. So that’s something that I feel like
I’ve personally done, you know, within my role, within my own
organizational team. Not that, uh, it’s fair to say like, I don’t think
every organization has a set of leaders where that’s always easy to do.
Um, and I’ll even say it’s probably taking me some time to stand in my
power or stand in my confidence to be able to effectively do that. I
think it even took someone validating like, you’re a really great
connector. Like, it’s such a powerful skill that like, I didn’t even
know we needed in this business. And I think even just naming that and
validating that was really helpful. For me to lean into that more. And
so, um, that’s something I think I’ve like learned a bit over the last
year or two. And I think that’s definitely raised the bar on like the
trust and the candor in that room. That’s great. Uh, Sarka, I can relate
so much to what you said about like, just naming what’s happening in the
room. I have found that has been so powerful. It’s like the name and
team, right? And really pointing out the dynamic that’s happening in the
room versus like what’s being said to who, um, right. And saying things
like, it doesn’t feel like we’re finished with this conversation and we
need, we’re not getting to the core challenge is what it feels like to
me. Um, and then I think for candor and accountability, oh my goodness,
trust is just so key and foundational and I have no idea if there is
like any formula that’s transactional to gain trust in people. I think
it’s just so subjective and relational. I what stands it like the front
of my mind right now. I’ve had the unique perspective. Adam mentioned
that I have stepped away a full time from my CPO role and I’m playing,
um, a consulting role with my company now. And my company did a going
away for me that was really well done. And what they had is everybody
gave me feedback on impact. Nobody was saying anything. I know you’ll
find this as a shock people, but like, wow, page 16 of the handbook was
so amazing. Right? Nailed it. What they were saying was things that had
happened 10 years ago, um, that were just very like human interactions
with ’em. Where, to your point, Sarka where I had said something like, I
noticed this is happening and it opened up all of these conversations,
but I feel like the trust factor is so relational in creating those
spaces, very intentional spaces to build relationship with people. Um,
and then I have something so practical here, but I love it. It’s one of
the favorite things that I’ve seen done in meetings. We actually had a
stuffed rat and it was an equal opportunity rat. So if people were going
down rat holes, um, in meeting That’s so funny. Yeah. Which we, it could
be like, we’re not getting to the point, right? Or somebody is getting
way in the weeds equal opportunity rat comes out and we just toss at
each other and nobody has gotten offended to this day, knock on wood.
Um, and it’s been 100% effective. We also have our zoom rat too, so you
can use this, but yeah, equal opportunity rat and everybody loves it.
And honestly it’s like a team building thing too, because it’s just like
fun to bring the rat out and people are like, the rat is coming, coming
at me. It’s a really practical thing too. I love that. We, I had, I put
it in the chat, but we did that too, Amy. It’s so funny. We, you and I
have never talked about that at our company. We had a stuffed squirrel
and we’d yell because we used to yell squirrel at people when they would
go off on, on plumbing tangents, I guess is a good word for it now, now
that I know. And we’d just throw the squirrel. It was just like, it,
yeah, it just shook up the room and it’s like a funny, you know, thing.
Shauna, sorry, what were you, what were you gonna say? No, that’s okay.
I think, uh, I agree with everything that, that, that Amy and Sarka have
said here. Um, I think on our executive team, I think folks have almost
come to rely on me a little bit to be the one to name the tension out
loud. Mm-hmm. Um, Adam, you were in our meeting the other day. I think
one of the things I said there at one point that sort of kind of jarred
some conversation was this feels fuzzy. You know, like I, I think we
need to understand this a little bit better. Um, and you know, I know
oftentimes we sit in these rooms and we’re like, oh, I’m, I’m not sure I
fully, you know, am bought in on this yet, you know, but maybe I’m the
only one. I don’t, I don’t wanna say it out loud. I was like, just get
over that fear and, and just say, Hey, you know, something’s not, you
know, not, not clicking here for me Wasn’t clicking right. Um, you know,
can, can we just explore this a little bit more? Um, but also just
naming the tension, like not being afraid to, you know, ’cause I, I do
think a group thinks, um, dynamic kind of starts to, to take over and
people will just continue sort of talking at this surface level. And if
you can say, you know, what, it, it feels to me like we’re, we’re maybe
kind of dancing around the real issue here. You know, anything like that
to kind of sort of help introduce a reset and an opportunity for, you
know, folks to, to um, reflect, you know, on the, on the conversation I
think is really helpful. Yeah. Well it’s so cool about that. It’s neat
’cause I very rarely get actually be in the room when these things
happen. And I was in the room with that and it’s amazing how that, um,
immediately click got us to the root clarity that we were all after too.
And I think that fuzzy phrase is really good. ’cause it’s not very like,
um, it’s, it’s clear in what you’re saying, but it’s not like it’s
gentle in it’s nature too. So it’s like a really good balance too. You
all. Um, I can’t say thank you enough just for sharing your wisdom and
being real and talking about your real journeys. Um, and gosh, I, it’s
hard to believe that that was an hour. I was like, I feel like we could
keep going. Uh, we’re just scratching the surface of what, what we had.
But, um, maybe we’ll do another one another time, but I, I thank you so
much just for, for sharing, if you would in the chat, feel free to share
one takeaway before we go or one learning that you might be able to
practically apply yourself. Um, and then, yeah, as I mentioned earlier,
join the, the new and good company community. And if you put a book
emoji on one of my posts, I will mail you a book. I have about a
thousand in my basement right now. My wife is just so thrilled anytime I
give them away, uh, and my, and I get to pay my kids when they mail ’em
too. So it’s like, it’s a win-win for everybody, you, me, my wife, my
kid, the whole thing. So thank you all so much. So good to be with you,
Sarika, Shauna, and Amy, you’re the best. That was so awesome. Thank
you. Thank You. Thank you.