NEVER SAY WHATEVER: How Small Decisions Can Make a Big Difference in Life and Work

I am so happy to be here because you are my people. I love dealing with HR people with talent management people with project managers with all the people that that's that's who I am and that's who I've been during during my career as well. As Zach said and I and Zach I love the way that you actually emphasized the word. You never said whatever you said whatever or whatever and that's what we're gonna talk about today. And I want to I saw a little bit of the chat. And I want to get something out of the way right away. There is only one useful and positive way to use the word whatever and that is when you tell someone. Honey, I love you, and I'll follow you to the ends of the world. Whatever it takes to to win your affection. That is okay. Other than that, it's not. Okay. And what I want to do my goal for today is to tell you about the word. And for those of you who use it my gift to you is I'm going to cure you of ever using the word and Zach is going to be my driver today and and change slides and Zach if you can keep me going here. We'll we'll get right into it. um This is good. We let's do the overview. So um, let's I'm going to talk about the word. I'm gonna talk about how it hurts you but I'm gonna give you a lot of cures for the word and I want to tell you a little bit about how I sort of jumped on this this is not this is a book about decision making to talk today is about decision making and I calmed on to the topic in two ways one. In one of my former lives. I was a managing partner at Accenture. We were working on a big project a big software implementation and the CEO. Of the company the client came into the room and he was always the a****** who came in from the side and said tried this do that changed all the all the work products and one of my colleagues in the room rolled her eyes in front of him and under her breath said whatever and I could hear he's sorted heard it and I thought you know, we might we might get fired here and then she did it again. And I thought this this is a word that is is dangerous. It's gonna It's Gonna Hurt. Our team It's Gonna Hurt everything we're doing and then shortly thereafter. With one of one of my sons younger friends in in his 20s said, you know, I was asking about the word. He said we are I love the the word whatever it's like the f word. It has so many you it has so much utility. It can mean so many different things. It's a core part of my vocabulary and that's when I said, maybe maybe I should examine this a little bit further. so keep going Zach So so that was the Genesis of the book never say whatever and that's when I'm not here to sell books, but I am here to get you to stop saying that word. So if all you remember from this presentation is the title of the book I have succeeded. And I put a dog in here happens to be my daughter's puppy. because I am I On the book cover it has PhD, which is true I my background is in organization Behavior. But my goal is to simplify things not complicate things. I have a radio show and I talk a lot about what's going on in the workplace, which I know is core to all of your thinking and so I talk about things like should you take your dog to work or not or should you show up at the office when they ask you to or all the things that are sort of in the white space of work? It's I'm not talking about what kind of software you should use in the HR or project management skills, or how to use pivot tables or Flex capacitors in in your project management. My goal is to simplify things and that's what I want to do today with this simple word. next one next one Zach I always do this. I always take this survey. And I ask how many use the word and how many know someone who uses the word you don't need to respond because I know the answer. You all know someone who uses the word? And so that's the answer to the second question is 100% all of you know, someone who uses the word. Now what I've discovered is when I ask how many of you use the word? The answer goes down to like 60% of you say you use the word. And the other 40% are lion because everybody uses the word in some way. It can be actually using the word. But maybe you don't say it out loud, or maybe you shrug your shoulders, or maybe you roll your eyes, or maybe you just walk away. But in my experience everybody is using this word and I am the Evangelist to get rid of it. Let's go Jack. So here we go. We all remember Alicia Silverstone in the movie Clueless, or maybe if you didn't she was front and center and a Super Bowl commercial this year and the using the Big W and what Alicia conveyed was either. Well it she can be many things all at once one was I'm not listening. I don't care and I'm cool at the same time. and one of the things I've discovered in my observational research about the word is that There's about different definitions of the word whatever we're going to go through some of them and you'll see that as I said earlier. None of them are good. Let's go Zach. and here are some some of the examples of of what the word means the most common one is I don't care and that can be conveyed in so many different ways by walking away and not answering but it's all the same thing. It's all the big whatever. I've learned in Consulting that often when I heard the word whatever from a client. That what he or she was really saying is I want you to make the decision for me and I'll blame you later. So when I said, well should we relocate that staff function to this building or that building or this building? The answer might have been whatever which meant. You make the decision and I'll blame you later. Another definition is you know, just leave me alone. I'm suffering from decision fatigue. I can't deal with it right now. And so stop leave me alone. And one of my favorite restaurants, I'm I live in the San Francisco Bay Area One of my favorite restaurants in San Francisco is one called The House of Prime Rib. And the reason I like it is because they have figured out that people don't like to make decisions. And if you go to this restaurant, you know that you're going to get prime rib, you don't go there for fish. another good or another definition of Of whatever is that's plain. That's good enough. That's good enough, whatever. Let's let's worry about it. Later. one of the things I've discovered in the workplace especially is that's that's good enough as an attitude often a good a good example is and I've used is when you go to the break room or when you went to the office and there was a break room. Lots of times there'd be a sign over the break room sink. That would say the maid or the servants don't don't work here anymore clean-up after your cells. And there in the sink below that sign is a big bucket of dirty dishes that no one cleaned up after. So you are now faced with the whatever decision should I put my dirty dishes on top or try to change things and then when you put your dishes on top, that's a big whatever that's good enough. Another example that I see in the workplace. All the time is resignation as in I can't change things on powerless. Whatever management is telling us to count. The number of Staples that were were giving out or reducing the amount of coffee we can have in the in the offices or even simple things like that. When you're when you're when you're response is a big sigh and a resignation and whatever that means you're giving up. A question that I'm I'm sure some of you have is who says whatever is it more prominent in New York or Milwaukee or La? Is it more prominent among men or women? Is it more prominent? What I've discovered is that when it comes to, California. When it comes to not California when it comes to the word, whatever and the word helpless. It's everyone everyone it it's across the world when there's a sense of helplessness that I can't change things that no one is listening. That's when the word whatever upset. Zach let's keep going. now someone often asks me about small decisions and big decisions and one thing I want to be clear about. is that Most of us don't use whatever when it comes to big decisions. We use lots of tools sophisticated or not, but we can make decisions about those those big big options. What we don't do is make decisions about the small the small decisions and that's what I want to talk about. so one of the things that the observations and surveys have discovered is that there are not a lot of big decisions in our lives. Think about that. Where you live your career who you marry or who you live with your relationships your decisions about children college graduate school. Even owning a dog. Those are all big decisions. But I'm as I ask people about big decisions. They're hard-pressed to name more than or 12. So what does that leave that leaves all the small decisions that really matter and that's where the whatever comes in. A good example that I cite in a book is when you go to lunch. Out to lunch with one of your colleagues. So you're you go to the office or or not. You meet your colleagues somewhere. You're out to lunch researchers at Cornell have discovered that just in the act of going out to lunch you make about decisions. They're all small where to go where to sit whole wheat sourdough mayonnaise mustard lettuce tomato toast think about that and every time you say whatever to any of those small decisions, you're likely to get a sandwich that you didn't want. and I use that metaphorically I'm this is not about going out to lunch with your colleagues, but it's about it's such a good example of the small decisions that that get you the sandwich that you don't want and when you say whatever two things happen. One is when you say whatever you're often conveying. A Persona a message that you're a slacker that you're not listening that you don't care that you're a valley girl that you're a valley boy or you're conveying a message that hurts your personal brand. And the second thing when you say whatever is you're not making that decision. Another good example small ones are about whatever is when you wake up in the morning and you go to your email. You have to make a decision about every single email. Do I delete do I respond do I ignore and every time you say whatever it's one of those little emails? You're not you're not making a decision that can hurt your career. Let's keep going Zach, and if you Zach if you see any questions, you're my you're my man here. So, please enter please intervene here. So what I've learned I interviewed tons of people for the book and I've learned that there are three five different things that really make a difference in. In curing you of whatever and I'm going to talk about each one in some detail because I think this is where the rubber meets the road. First cure for whatever is to be intentional. And I know that's a buzzword today and I want to break it down into some very easy things. So the examples I use are things like if you're intent is to lose weight. You act like you're on a what you act like you're on a diet and make those decisions accordingly. So another way to put being intentional is actions follow intent decisions follow intent. If you intend to stay married, you act like you are married if you intend to get into better shape, you take the stairs rather than the elevator. Simple very simple, but the problem is it's really hard to clarify your intent organizationally or career-wise or personally. It's hard to clarify intentions. One of the people I interviewed for. The book is a man named John Bullock. in Lawrence, Kansas He is a both an attorney very successful attorney and an Episcopal priest, really. really unusual combination and one of the things that he does and did and I think It's a good example of some of a cure is he has a personal mission statement now in all of your organizations that you work with. They're all kinds of visions and missions statements hanging on the wall that maybe somebody pays attention to or not. But he has a personal mission statement to help people and it gets a little more dramatic than that, but all of his decisions are based on his intention to do that. It's very simple, but I think if you can clarify your intent your intentions you will. Be much more effective at making decisions. Another thing I've learned and these are all from leaders is that gaining perspective another way to put it that's buzziers being a self-aware those people that are self-aware those leaders that are self-aware are very good at making decisions. Even the small ones because they trust they tell themselves the truth. Should I make this decision even though I know it's not going to be the right one. No, they never say whatever and they are true to themselves. They understand themselves are self-aware. Somebody like Steve Jobs. Can you imagine him saying the word whatever or Warren Buffett? I mean think of somebody that you like think of somebody that you respect and they don't say the word whatever. In fact I talk about the bosses that the most effective bosses that you've ever had in your career. They do three things. They hold you to a higher standard they gave you a chance and they tell you how to how to be a boss. And those are three things that don't have anything to do with the word. Whatever. Another thing. I've learned by based on the research and the observations is people who are accountable don't say whatever. And I'm not saying that you're accountable to the IRS. I'm saying that all of us are accountable to something whether you're the CEO of IBM or you're the leader of your church. Group or the leader of your bowling team or your family at the most at the most basic level you're accountable to yourself. And people who are accountable to themselves never say whatever. and also the people who take risks are the ones who don't say whatever and while all the research also says that the The the regrets in our lives are based on the decisions that we did not make not based on the decisions that we made. I did not make the decision to go to graduate school. I did not make the decision to marry that person that I dated in college. I did not regress or all based on the decisions that we did not make by taking a risk and that's I think something that all of these You know the four little bullets, there's just a few words. They're all really hard to do. But if you do them, you're more likely to make. Those small decisions and not say whatever. This goes Zach. So what are the tools that we can use to make decisions? Those small ones? I put the Magic Ball up here because I actually know somebody who makes some decisions based on you know. Shaking the Magic Ball and turning it over and see what it says another suggesting you do that, but it does work. I know someone else who makes all of their decisions based on Siri. He asks Siri questions and what she says drives his decisions, but I'm not suggesting that that you do that. I am suggesting that you find tools and hacks what whatever they might be that will help you make decisions. Keep going Zach. so on more on the decision on the on the tools and hacks, you know, what works for you. It could be simple pros and cons lists. It could be as simple as doing an if-then analysis. It could be as simple as using your gut but when you use your gut you have to be self-aware a lot of people who use their gut are pretty conscious that their gut is based on experience and and lots of other things that inform their gut or you can use, you know, Harvey balls. There's lots of other ways. So in I want to make sure that we have a lot of time for questions and answers and I see a whole bunch of them in the in the chat. So some things that matter some things I know these are true. And that is that the small decisions matter That speed is your friend. A lot of research is done about Making Fast decisions the Consulting Group Bain did a big study about speed they came up with the two-minute Rule and they they found that the decision that you're likely to make in the first two minutes. It's probably the same one that you'll make if you suffer over it for a week or a month. So make the decision and the good news about speed is that if it's the wrong decision you can go back and fix it. These things I know also are the you have to tell yourself the truth and I'm not suggesting that you're fraud or that you lie. But in your heart of hearts, you know, what decision is probably going to be best for you. Should I take that class in in programming or encoding because everybody tells me I should well if you're not if it's not going to help you and you don't want to do it tell yourself the truth and make the decision don't do it. Don't say whatever and go do it. I've already talked about regrets being the decisions that you don't that you don't make And I want to just really emphasize that every day you're making thousands of decisions and a big a decision that you made today. Here's here's a whatever decision you make the decision wasn't a big one to attend this webinar. You could have said whatever I'm busy, you know and just blown it off, but you didn't you made a decision and I hope it had something to do that will. Change change your change your life. Zack mentioned this that I've discovered that the word whatever is like an earwig once you get it in your head every time you hear it every time you eat for the rest of the day the rest of the week, maybe the rest of the year. Maybe with your family and at work, you're going to hear the word whatever you're gonna cringe and you say that guy told me I shouldn't say that. and it's going to be an earwig like You know like a song that you don't like it's like the the jingle for cars for kids. That's so annoying. I want you to. Confront the word when you can and do it something some a tool that that I've seen a person do a very prominent HR person when she hears the word whatever she stops and she says, I don't know what that means. Please please tell me in a in a empathetic way tell me what that means and she's learned that it often means that I'm scared and I and she can work with it from there. So and then last bullet is choices lift your soul. The more you say whatever the more the decisions pile up the more you're going to be miserable with all the whatever's in your life. So just stop saying the word. Next one Zach. Oh, yeah. So this is the book is out you I have told you my gifts to you was that I just told you the contents of the book, but you might want to get it. I'm discovering that everybody's buying the book and giving it to somebody who says whatever so I'm happy to happy that it's resonating and the book is available on Amazon if you so choose I'm easily to read I'm easy to reach on LinkedIn. I respond to every message I receive and I hope that you found this useful, but I'd really like to do is open it up to questions and the chat and Zach. I hope you can be my moderator here. There is absolutely Absolutely. I can be your moderator and I wasn't gonna say okay. Whatever Richard no, don't say it. Yeah. Yeah. Well first off I want to make sure I share these resources in the chat for everyone that's joining us. I highly encourage you to connect with Richard and you can also find some of that information there make sure to check it out. And yes, we'll we'll be having a recording of this and our resource Library afterwards Matthew. So thank you for asking that question. So Richard we had a lot of great ideas going on in the chat while you're while you're kind of sharing some of these different tactics and situations at things come up and a lot of it was around decision making and getting out of conflicting conversations seem to be like a theme especially I think about when we're talk about improving workplace culture. It's about embracing conflict and being able to work through conflicting discussions, but it can be pretty easy. And I think I should that example at the beginning about And I got pulled into a conversation we started and talking about a project. My peer was asking me like we're well, like what about this? I'm like hi. It's whatever like let's just pick like whatever just pick one and let's move on. How do you oh, should I maybe respond in those situations? When yeah, I've discovered that there are lots of situations and especially for those in HR and project management on here where the options that you have to choose from are all bad. There's no it's not like, you know door number one is good and door number two and three are bad. No all the doors are bad. So you have to choose one and that is often the time when whatever pops up like he's I don't know whatever let's let's not pick one today. It doesn't help to do to say whatever to that so conflict is also you know is sometimes the other time when when whatever comes up we're just easier to walk away and say whatever then then deal with the conflict, but those those two times are one Whatever shows up in the workplace and especially if you're in a staff group like many of you are where it it's tough to can it's tough to make make a confrontation. But when all the options are bad, you still have to pick one. You still can't say whatever and when the conflict is there. Lots of times you're just avoiding the conflict or the resolution of the conflict when you say whatever so my my advice to everybody is, you know, don't dwell on it don't stew on it, you know, don't say whatever and go back to it later. I my advice still is to say, you know, don't say whatever and to create options lots of times a trick to getting out of the whatever bucket is to create the options that are clear and then just pick one even if that one Yeah, it's kind of like if you're if they're giving you a whatever back right maybe give them different options to choose from and I appreciate Cynthia's question too because it seems like yeah, you do respond. Maybe you do start to provide options, but the person continues to dismiss it and they walk away right and they don't engage past that so are there situations that you pursue our situations you push even harder, I guess. Well, I think there's you know, like in everything in decision making there's all kinds of judgment. So for at some point as Cynthia says, sometimes you have to choose if you want someone who says whatever on your team, right one of the people I interviewed for the book. Is Michael Huerta who is the former commissioner at an administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration the FAA? He has 160,000. He had 160,air traffic controllers that work for him and he said, you know that the word whatever is not part of air traffic control and he's he also said we had a beautiful measure. He his measure was there was the same number of airplanes land as say as the number of airplanes that took off on any given day so there was no whatever in that culture and what I think is a real danger is where there's a culture of whatever and you allow that to happen. So someone says whatever walks away I would suggest is somebody that needs to be pulled into performance review and said hey, you know, you don't give a s*** and that's a bad attitude. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're okay. And and yeah, it's like dismissing accountability. For some of the decisions right and and avoiding this collaborative effort. It's like well, I don't want to be the person that's tied to the result maybe and lots of times. It's a feeling of helplessness. I worked once with the teamsters who were yelled at because they weren't being productive enough. They were all measured on speed not quality. So they would load in the warehouses. They'd load the rocks on top of the stereos and things and they said whatever because I have no power in this only measure is is speed. So whatever can be a feeling of you know, Screw you Mr. Manager or mismanager because I'm helpless in in this job category. Yeah. Something that came up in the chat that was more of like a statement they're talking about it, but I kind of thought about it a little bit more where I've even had situations where someone comes to me around a decision. And I might not my role my responsibility on the team has nothing to do with what they're asking about and I feel like they're putting that decision onto me when it is their decision. Like they're the holder of that decision. So I'll be like it doesn't matter what I think it's whatever you want to do like I don't know so like that. I'm just curious on like situations like I think in that case, you know, I think you really need to be conscious of you know, not making the decision for them because they're gonna blame you right, you know, or how often have we heard, you know, it's not my decision but You know and then that hot that happens so often with layoffs and cost reduction initiatives and things like that. So that that but is always is always really important. I would you know, you can render an opinion but you don't don't make the decision. That's where you get out. That's where you get into trouble. I'm curious when you started like right in this book and even rolling out. This philosophy right of eliminating this language from maybe culture and workplaces. Did you come across any like particular challenges or barriers when trying to I guess get people to buy into that? Well, it's funny. As I said in this survey early on everybody knows somebody who says whatever it's always it's always I know that person and lots of times people don't admit that they do it themselves and So that's been a challenge to get people to admit it and I have I did a little bit of a survey that I want to read to especially in the work from home world. So these are all whatever responses. So here's some questions that's in the survey in the book. Do you wear the same clothes for more than two days at a time? Do you in effect you say whatever nobody will notice the answer is yes, people notice. Don't say whatever do you hang around with friends whom you don't like? That's a whatever. Do you schedule or attend meetings to kill time? That's a big whatever. Do you eat? Second helpings even when you don't want them. That's a big whatever all these are just whatever's in your life. And in the workplace that are hurting you are hurting you. So so in the in the book the book was a joy to write actually it was not a chore because once I got into it, I recognized that it's the small decisions that matter in our lives and in our careers and if you say whatever to any of those small decisions, you're hurting you're hurting your career. You're hurting your Your relationships and you know simple answers just stop saying that word. Yeah, one thing I'm thinking about is like how do I initiate maybe this conversation on my team or within my company right? I want to bring this to life and start to make it a thing that we want to avoid and I'm even thinking back of like Cynthia's question right like one option when they just walk away Cynthia might be like, let's buy them the book and be like, hey, you said this the other day? Yeah. Yeah, like if I if I want to maybe have this conversation with my team and start to surface this You know part of our culture that's kind of toxic that we need eliminate how might someone start to nap at that discussion. I'd simply ask the question, you know, do we are we good at making small decisions? I know we're good at making big decisions because that includes analysis and spreadsheets and pivot tables and so on but what about the small decisions are we good at it? And I would ask that question and see if you can get the truth. One of the people I interviewed in a book was a young woman who was entrepreneur who had a millions of dollars to start her company and every time she was asked a question about small costs. You know, I want to go to this conference. Is that okay should say whatever. Can I take this other person with me? Whatever go ahead pretty soon all those whatever decisions about small costs added up to she ran out of money. So what I would do is I would address it with your team. If if it makes it easier use the book use my use my book and say are are we good at making small decisions or do we say whatever and if the answer is yes, then it's time for an intervention have me use me if you want and say there's a guy who's crusaded in life is to stop people from saying whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough one. I resonate with what Robin even shared in the chat of like when you're doing things with friends and you're trying to make a decision while where you want to go for dinner, or you want to go out tonight or what do you want to do like I'm down for whatever. Let's do whatever right and I feel like that's a really tough one to avoid. Yeah, that is a tough one so that the answer to that question should be what are our options and then pick one? No not whatever. It's it's it can be depending on who it is. But, you know, even when you go home with us with a Us we're partnering in someone says what do you want for dinner? I mean it's not whatever. I mean, it's what our choices let's work on this together. It's yeah simple, it's not it. I don't want to Say that you know that you're the future of the University depends on on your dinner choice, but I am saying that it matters it little those little choices matter. Yeah. It's probably the source of a lot of conflicts and relationships right where you're trying to make a decision about what you're going to do together and like well do whatever what are you want to do? Oh Jesus are you but me you may not get what you want. Yeah and lots of times everyone agrees to do whatever which means No one no one gets what they want. No. Okay, I want to bring up a situation that I know for sure. Our community has to go through internally at organizations, especially as a community of people leaders, you know, we're HR Executives maybe mid-level leaders are leading a lot of initiatives internally where we have to go to an executive team and we have to go present and talk about things that we think are going to make an impact. And the executive team might go well, whatever just like lead the thing and get out of it. So there's There's a power difference in this conversation. And that's why and a fear maybe of like pushing back. So maybe how do you navigate maybe those situation? I'm just thinking about your experience as a CEO and venture capitalist as well. How do you maybe approach that when there is maybe hierarchy but I think this gets back to clarifying options, you know, so you present you present something and the executive team says whatever that could either mean you make the choice for me and I'll blame you later or I don't care, you know, this isn't significant enough for me. So clarifying the options are always are always the most important thing so somebody who says whatever, you know, I I use the you know door number one door number two three metaphor, but if those doors are clarified, then you can say so that tells me that I can pick either one of these and you'll be okay with that. So again, it's it's the clarity. It's the it's the it's the intention it's the actions following the intent and and I think people lots of times as as in staff roles are full of fear that they might lose their job over over making a decision and I think You know clarifying the options and sharing. You know decision making isn't hard no matter who you are. It's you listen to people you do the analysis. You count you clarify the options and you choose one. That's it. That's it. Yeah. And then it's like I agree right like decisions should be fairly simple. Right like have a process and a way to kind of like go through. different options and clarify the route forward and take an action and James brings this up and I'm curious of just your thoughts on this on like any thoughts at a deeper level like why are people hesitant to take ownership of decisions or it's well, it's you know, they I think I'll take even a step back further that I find it ironic that you know decision-making is not taught is not taught in high school and college. There's no classes on decision making and take Advanced calculus and organic chemistry that you may not ever use again, but you but nothing about decision-making I think fear taking the risk are all part of it and Some of the most effective people I've I interviewed talked about that and they said they when they came to decision making and they had to overcome their fear. They said what's the worst that can happen to me? And and usually isn't that bad? Yeah, so make the decision and well and the other thing is what would you rather be known as in your in your court in your organization as a decision maker or as a wishy-washy? Lack of decision maker, you don't want to you don't want to be labeled as a whatever person or wishy-washy you want to be labeled as the person who makes decisions. Yeah. Yeah, we tend to like outweigh the negative result potential more than the positive results that could come from making a decision, right? How can we at least weigh them equally a little bit and so yeah. Yeah, um, but it gets in it all of this gets in the trouble and all when all the options are bad. And in fact right now a lot of people in HR, I mean, they're faced with decision-making about layoffs and about you know, who who goes where and all that and none of those are good decisions, but you still need to make them they're not easy. yeah, I was to think about the other party talked about like teaching decision making and being taught and feeling empowered to make our own decisions. We're probably most of our live people were making decisions for us on you know, what classes we take where we're gonna go to school. You know, I think gin and the like if we gave our kids the option of what we eat, we're eating pizza and ice cream every night so we can't let them do those decisions, right? You are a parent. Yeah. So at some point we need guidance and decision making because we actually haven't developed that experience but then all sudden we're thrown into the workplace and that's the first time we may actually have to make a decision but parenting is all about creating options. I mean, you know, we have four children and early on I learned that the creating options like do you want to take a bath and go to bed or do you want to go to bed? Those are it? Those are the two options? There's there's not a third one about staying up. So I think clarifying those options and being intentional about about all that is is just a big part of the part of the solution. But yeah, but again the whatever I want to keep on getting back to that word because it could be this shrug. It could be the rolling of the eyes. It is just cancer in an organization. What if you do that? Yeah. Well Zach, I'm I'm enjoying this but I need to go. Yeah, yeah don't we're coming up on time. This was this was great Richard. Thank you. Again. If everyone enjoying us today, can we give them a quick Round of Applause and appreciation that comes in love? Thank you. Yeah, I see that I see the hands coming up. Yeah good. Well Richard, thank you so much again, really? Appreciate your time. Okay? Encourage you to follow them. Yeah, go ahead and I am the guy I am the one if I can help you or your organization reach out. I'll be happy to to say say the same thing never say whatever so that thanks you thank you to all and I hope we'll be in touch. Yeah, absolutely follow them on the LinkedIn his websites there as we also got a link to the book and yeah lemonade whatever and let's start making better decisions and live a better life. So Richard, thank you. Again. Thanks for your day everyone. Thank you for joining and showing up today. Have a great rest of your afternoon and we'll see each other again soon.

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