Performance Enablement for the Frontline: Engaging, Appreciating, and Retaining Your Workforce

I would love to get to the fun part of this conversation,
which is actually unpacking performance
enablement for the front line.
I often think that a lot of programs,
even ours at Achieve engagement, we sometimes forget about
this huge workforce that we're all serving,
which is the desk-less worker, the frontline employee,
the people that are out in the field, you know, enga,
it's a lot tougher and it's a whole different world
to engage and work with this, this footprint that we're,
it's a huge part of our workforce
and probably a huge part of
the companies that you're serving.
So that's what we're gonna unpack today.
We're gonna talk about performance enablement.
We're gonna talk about strategic perks.
What does meaningful appreciation look like for this type
of employee or this type of portion of our workforce,
and how some of the top organizations are doing that,
and how can we unpack maybe the ROI
and the value of this as well?
And to really do this for you,
we brought together three amazing leaders
who are doing this, uh,
in respective ways at previous companies as well
as their organizations today.
So if we can give a warm welcome, I'd love if we could, uh,
maybe in the chat or the emojis, give them some,
some appreciation for showing up today.
Uh, we have Bella, who's the senior specialist and,
and talent development leader with Vail Resorts.
We have Sarah k Lebo, director
of Human Resources at Fitness Formula Clubs, corporate
and Gel is Chief People Officer at Deputy.
And on top of that, I would love to give a huge shout out
to our partners at Deputy.
They're enabling a lot of organizations in this space in
so many ways to engage this workforce.
So if you don't know them already, I really encourage you
to check them out, reach out.
We're gonna be sharing some free resources
from them throughout the program.
But yeah, can we give them some
appreciation for coming today?
So I'm gonna stop sharing. Wonderful.
Uh, Bella, Sarah, and now sja.
Welcome. Thank you for being here with us.
Uh, really unpack to unpack some
of these different pieces like performance enablement,
rewards and recognition, the value,
how do we measure these things?
And maybe we can just start
with just like brief introductions
and I would love for you
to just provide your initial perspective
or experience on the challenges
or ways that you've approached this portion
of the, of the workforce.
Uh, sil I would love to pass it over to you first.
Sure. Uh, it's great to be here.
Thank you so much for, uh, getting us together, Zach.
Uh, so I am Chief people Officer at Deputy,
and my passion for the frontline workforce, uh,
began when I was CHRO of a solar tech company.
We had 14,000, uh, frontline workers.
And, um, as a background,
I started in management consulting, corporate strategy.
I did some marketing, uh,
and now leading the full end-to-end, uh, uh, people, uh,
employee lifecycle at deputy, uh,
also working on our AI strategy, which I know is top
of mind for so many of us.
I love that. Yeah. Maybe we can,
I know AI has been everywhere
and every program, we didn't really prioritize it in this
one, but I'd love to maybe drip that in there a little bit.
Like how has that changing how we engage the frontline?
Are there certain use cases there?
So, well, thank you for being here with us.
Uh, Bella welcome.
Would love to tell us a little bit about your work,
your experience, and Yeah, sure.
Your kind of view and
and experience with this portion of the workforce.
Absolutely, and thanks Zach for having me here today.
So my name's Bella and I have experience in learning
and development, organizational development,
and as a senior specialist at Vail Resorts focused on talent
development, a lot of what I
do is focused on developing high potential talent,
and that really includes frontline high potential employees.
So figuring out what are those differentiated development
opportunities that allow the frontline
to envision a career at the organization.
Um, so I'm excited to share a little bit about this from
kind of like that practitioner perspective of
what does it look like to, um, build out
and manage these programs,
and then what does that look like in different areas
of talent development as well,
whether it's performance enablement, um, or ROI.
Great. Thank you. Yeah,
and that would be an interesting, like, important point
for us to cover is really like,
how do we ensure frontline employees see a long-term future
with our organizations, right?
Where it can sometimes feel like maybe there isn't immediate
upward mobility available.
So is there different development pathways we could build
into other portions of the organization
that keep them with us over the long term?
So I'm gonna head myself a little bit,
but Sarah, thanks for being here as well.
Uh, yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself
and what are some of the things you're seeing
or working on in this space.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Uh, good morning and good afternoon
to everyone depending on where you are.
Um, I am director
of human resources here at Fitness Formula Clubs.
We are in Chicago.
We have 10 locations, about 850 employees.
I'm originally from Houston, so shout out
to all the Texas people to hear my accent.
Also, that's where it's from, not originally from Chicago.
Um, my experience within, um,
HR is really in the hospitality space.
So previous to being in the fitness industry,
I was also in restaurants doing hr.
So all of that very frontline oriented and frontline heavy.
I love that space. I feel like a lot
of my career started in the restaurant industry and,
and built so many skill sets that led to my,
my career in the future.
So I have a, I have soft spot for that group as well.
So happy that you're here with us, Sarah, thanks for
for taking us home with intros.
So I'd love to really start to unpack one
of our first themes as a group, which is performance
and performance reviews
and how this can often be something
that feels like it's done to us.
It's kind of dragging in most ways.
No one tends to look forward to it.
It's not really an engagement tool typically. Right?
And, uh, I'm wondering how we can start to rethink that
to help obviously wanna unlock more performance within the
company, but is there a way
that we can actually shift performance reviews from this
like yeah.
Performative compliance related exercise to more
of an engagement tool that helps motivate our people
and keeps them kind of pushing forward.
And Bella, I'd love to actually go to you first and,
and hear your thoughts around that.
Like how can we shift that?
And I remember you talking a lot about it may stem from more
of like the culture and creating a learning
culture, so mm-hmm.
Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Yeah, absolutely. I do think it's important to
consider like, what's the real
problem you're trying to solve.
So if you're trying to look at your HR organization
and figure out, okay, do we have this compliance performance
management element in place, I think that's great,
but you also need the systems and processes
and culture in place to support it.
So what I found works, um,
in my experience at Vail Resorts is building in check-ins
throughout the year and including frontline talent
in that exercise.
So it's not just saying, okay, you're here for,
um, a certain amount of time.
We're not gonna invest in that.
It's, we're so glad you're here for a certain amount of time
and we we're gonna build in check-ins throughout the season.
And so I think it's being intentional about
what do you hope to accomplish?
Does your culture help that or not?
And then you can build the systems
and processes that enable that.
So that's my perspective on it.
Start with the culture and then you can figure out what's,
what fits in your organization.
I'll ask a follow up question to you too,
but I'll sure prompt the chat here and everyone listening.
I'm just curious from the group attending today,
what is your cadence for performance reviews today?
Is it annual? Do you have quarterly? Is it a semi-annual?
Are you doing it at all?
Like what, if you could maybe add one
or two words in the chat right now, what it is for you.
I'd love to see how some of you are approaching that piece.
Bella, for your thoughts
or maybe how you've actually done it.
What is the cadence to these check-ins?
Is it, Hey, we're having weekly one-on-ones
and that's kind of our reviews.
Is it quarterly? Like can you talk
to us maybe through the framework?
Yeah, I would say for frontline talent, it tends
to be setting goals at the beginning of the season
and then a mid-season check-in to see how folks are doing,
and then a check-in at the end of the season.
And so for folks at different resorts,
this might be a six month season,
so it's figuring out what's that typical mid part
of the season, and then equipping managers with tools
to facilitate those conversations.
Um, so there, there's three touch points
and it looks a little bit different for every resort, just
'cause they open and close at different times.
And then that's, that's on a slightly different schedule
than year round employees, um,
because that's more focused on the
calendar year instead of the season.
Awesome. I love, I love kind of the reaffirming
of like understanding your seasons
and like what actually meets the type
of business operations you're in
and are you meeting that
where I know like the resorts, right?
Like you're gonna have seasonal employees
that are working on the mountains at certain times
of the year for the winter season, right?
So like there's different types of operations there.
Uh, Gio what about you?
Any thoughts on how we can reframe performance reviews
or re-approach that so that it is more of a motivating,
you know, experience or, uh, even something
that people desire within their, their employment?
So I think it starts with the company's values.
As Bella mentioned, culture is so important.
And so, you know, a lot of companies have growth
or a growth mindset as part of their values.
So one, I think it is a culture, a beginning is a culture.
And then I really think the focus also has
to be on the managers.
So oftentimes we look at the employees as well,
you should love performance management.
And I think performance management done with care
by a manager who has been trained, developed.
Um, you know, I always, um, uh, joke
that management is a little bit like parenting.
You know, one day you don't have a baby
and then suddenly you do
and you're supposed to have, um, a manual
or like just implicit knowledge, um, from day one.
So management I do think requires dialogue, training,
experience and support
to help you grow into a strong manager.
So we always frame performance management as an employee
focused journey.
And I do think that the managers also have to play a part,
how are you showing up with high care, high performance?
And sometimes we see, um, the split.
We see managers who are just really nice,
but they don't offer constructive feedback
and they don't really grow and what I call, um, too hard.
So how do you get to the middle, which is a kind manager.
And kindness means, you know, Zach
and I are gonna have a tough conversation if we need to
because I truly do care about Zach's development.
So I think that that is, um, you know, my journey and,
and I think the manager focus is something that's important.
Even when I started my journey, it was just, here you are,
you're a manager now and you know, that takes evolution,
reflection, and support.
Yeah. Back,
I'll jump in a little bit, give some feedback.
So here at FFC, we do our annual reviews annually,
and they're about to begin on June 2nd.
And we've been revamping for about the last three years just
to try to get it a little bit better,
a little bit more technology savvy, um, all of that.
And as we've received feedback, we've made adjustments, um,
but we believe in feedback early and often.
So essentially if you are receiving new feedback on your
annual review, then your manager has not really done their
job to check in with you along the way, whether it's weekly
or monthly or whatever.
Um, so we believe in like no surprises
during the annual review process,
but since our reviews are also tied
to our annual merit increases, there is a lot of motivation
on getting them done and getting them submitted.
And then our, uh, merit increases are effective on July one.
Uh, but one thing I will say is that, um, to sage's, uh,
point is that we really make it employee focused versus, um,
employer focused because we talk about metrics all the time,
about making money all the time,
and this is a really, um, one opportune time
to focus only on the employee,
what they've achieved over the last year
and what the goals are for the coming year.
Uh, but with that said, our frontline team, we received
so much feedback last year on our reviews being 20
plus questions for them.
And so this year we made it seven questions
and I got so many high fives virtual
and in person about that.
So fingers crossed it goes well.
Could you tell us more about, uh, you know, don't have
to list the actual questions,
but what type of stuff are you including in that review?
Are there certain themes and buckets?
Yeah, so there's always going to be, uh, the basics
of like performance and goals and development,
but we also added in one item
from the last two years has been our hospitality initiative,
a strategic initiative from our senior team.
And so we added in questions, well, one question regarding
that, because if we wanted to put our money
where our mouth is, so if we're teaching that hospitality
for our frontline to, um, give to our members is really key,
then we need to check in with our employees on that.
Right? Um, we also add in simple questions about appearance,
you know, things like that that are easy to talk to, um,
pretty simple but important also in the review process.
Yeah, amazing.
Well, I'm excited for you
to have this next season with that.
And, uh, I think you hit on like a really important point
that I wanna reaffirm.
I remember one of our other members tag lined this as,
and i, I might butcher it,
but it was like, no new, no new news, annual reviews,
you know, I was like, there shouldn't be any new news
in your annual review.
It should have been all stuff that was consistently covered
throughout your check-ins and, and throughout the year
and the feedback cycles and things like that.
If your annual review is a bunch of new news
that the person's like, oh my gosh, I had no awareness
of this, that's where you need to really start
to like highlight, okay, we need to shift
to a more proactive, uh, you know,
feedback often in early culture where
we're not shocking people with these reviews, right?
And then now that becomes this really disen dis
encouraging experience.
And, and assil, I also wanna like
reaffirm a point you problem, which was like,
you wanna proactively, proactively let people know this
critical feedback, right?
Like there's the nice side of things
where it's almost too toxic, where no one's growing and,
and uncovering blind spots.
Obviously the too harsh version is just, it, it's,
it's too critical maybe, and it, it doesn't feel energizing.
So where is that middle point that you can find?
And I always remember like how to reframe feedback
as a gift often as like this funny like metaphor of like,
if you had a booger in your face, what did you want people
to tell you that you had a booger hanging outta your nose?
Right? Like that would be something you want someone
to give you feedback on and tell you
because it would be embarrassing if they don't, if you were
to walk around like that all day.
And often then I'm thinking like, well,
if you're not giving people critical feedback
of certain things they're doing
where they're missing the gap,
you're basically allowing your people to walk around
with a bunch of boogers on their face, right?
Like, and we don't want that
and they don't want that either.
So it's kind of a funny metaphor,
but I I think it kind of hits home for a lot of things.
So that being said,
you all brought in some pretty critical points
around like the leadership's role in all of this
and how leaders need to be capable and trained and,
and be in a place to be able to provide that type of culture
and experience and have those conversations.
Uh, so I'd love to maybe hear some of your thoughts like
how can we enable our leaders?
Like what are some of the changes companies can make,
or ways we can enable our people leaders
to have those conversations?
And yeah. Bella, I'd love to go back to you on, on
what types of leadership enablement have you seen work
or have you done in the past to bring this to life?
Yeah, I would say that developing coaching
as a manager capability is so important.
And if you have managers that you know, have the mindset
of coaching and maybe aren't the best feedback givers,
I think that you're in a better place than people who know
that they have to give feedback every now and then,
but they don't know how or when to communicate it.
So I think investing in, uh, management's capability, um,
to have those feedback conversations.
And I do think it's important to do that at all levels,
especially for frontline talent
because everybody at every level wants to grow.
And so whether somebody's there for like a short time
or a long time, making sure
that you are investing your time in them
and that you're having meaningful conversations, I think,
um, the time you put into it, um,
in the present pays off dividends in the future.
So coaching, and I love what you were saying about feedback,
practicing radical candor,
but also bringing in the perspective
of the talent that you're coaching.
So the way that you might like
to receive feedback isn't the same way that they wanna, um,
that they wanna receive feedback.
So being mindful about the folks on your team
and like what, um, you know, what's the best way
to convey the message to them.
And then I think last thing I'll say, ensuring
that leaders are held accountable for knowing how to coach
and held accountable for having these conversations.
I think those are the small shifts that companies can make,
is that you, uh, encourage it as a behavior
and then you also incentivize it.
Do we reward our managers for doing this?
Are we tracking that they're doing this,
or are we just saying it's important?
Good luck. So building it in again to
that culture is so important.
Yeah. Especially if you're on a model like Sarah
where there's certain mm-hmm.
Annual reviews that connect to their,
their merit increases and things like that.
Is feedback behaviors
and habits part of that review for leaders
that are connected to the raises
and the compensation they receive, right?
So do we see you as a leader demonstrating consistent
feedback to your people and like
however you wanna evaluate
or measure that, whether that's like 360 reviews
and things like that, is that connected again?
Yeah. How you incentivize
and reward leaders, you know, so, uh, s Joel,
you also mentioned a lot about check-ins
and the power of having those.
Can you maybe unpack that and,
and how maybe that can unlock that
with leaders in their direct reports?
Yeah, I think it's those moments to connect.
Um, and so again,
each company does maybe a big annual cycle,
maybe a smaller mid-year cycle,
but between those major chapters you have
to have frequent check-ins.
And so again, I always say one-on-ones
or like the atomic level of good management,
and sometimes some
of the basic like atomic level things don't happen,
and then we want high performance.
So how are we connecting,
how are we making the time to connect?
Um, and I know that, you know, especially as management,
not only are you supporting your teams,
but you're also in charge of getting day-to-day work done.
And so I do think that, you know, that was one
of my passions for joining Deputy is I do think
as HR leaders, the technology we use can help
alleviate some of that burden.
So especially with frontline workers, um, when I was at,
when I was a public company, CHRO
and I had these 14,000 employees, I always wanted
that ability to help manage shifts
or help, you know, have a workforce solution talk
and engage with my frontline.
Um, it's one of the reasons that brought me to deputy,
but more so it's like how do we,
how do we focus on our people and how do we automate
or how do we simplify some of the other things
that take up our bandwidth?
And I just wanna add one thing, like generally speaking
with people, hard feedback is easier
when you have a connection with the person.
So what we teach in our department head training that all
of our leaders at our clubs have gone through
is you actually choose three people each day
and you check in with them three times, just quick personal
or business oriented three check-ins each day.
And then as you do that over and over, it becomes habitual
and you build these connections so that you know,
when you're asking about how your weekend was
or whatever, what happened over the last evening, um,
it's easier when you need to say, okay,
but I need to, we need
to talk about something a little more serious, right?
So I would say that having
that connection makes the harder conversations easier.
I really appreciate that piece of, if we want to get to
a feedback growth culture, a lot of that is
built under, on top of a foundation
of connection and trust, right?
So what are the things you can do, the micro moments,
the experiences to help build that connection and trust?
It makes me think of back and when I was working in the
restaurant industry, like
before every shift, we actually had a portion of that shift
dedicated to, they called it family meals or certain meals
before you even got on the floor, where everyone for
that next shift would basically spend a half hour
before you got to work.
Obviously they would feed you
and make sure you're good to go from that side
of things depending on where you were in the shift.
But then that also, like that 30 minutes
of almost spending time together, unpacking the plan
for the day, talking through concerns, providing feedback
and things to be on top of for the shift ahead.
Like that was a very pivotal moment
that helped build that connection.
And then when the day got going
and people needed to provide immediate feedback
because of something that was happening, it was easy to do
that because you've, you've built down
the foundation of connection.
So I wonder about like,
how can you build those into the experience, right?
Like these micro moments of connection building
that make the tougher conversations later a lot easier to do
because you've already established that foundation.
Okay. So I'm gonna shift gears here with the group.
I'd love to now talk through, okay, we got this foundation
of like performance and, and performance and enablement
and talking through that feedback culture.
I'd love to shift now to like perks and rewards
and recognition and what are the ways that we can continue
to energize our people, motivate them,
also prioritize this sense of wellbeing through some
of the things like employee perks
and definitely like thinking about how do we go
beyond the paycheck And, uh, yeah, would love
to open up the floor cil.
Maybe I, I go to you first.
Like what are some of the high ROI perks
or benefits you see making a real difference
for the frontline today?
So I think this is iterative.
So when you think about it,
there are probably like five year cycles to needs
and your, uh, demographics in terms of your, um, workforce.
So you may have a certain workforce and,
and especially with frontline work,
it tends to skew younger.
But you do need to, um,
and Gen Z now make up a majority of that workforce.
But I do think the starting point in really determining good
benefits, I don't think it's a one size fits all model.
So what may work for Bella
and Sarah's companies may not be what works for my company.
And so the starting point as HR leaders, um,
in my mind is really to
reflect annually when we're looking at our benefits,
really look at the, um, employee feedback
and sentiments around benefits.
Uh, I look at utilization and usage.
I wanna make sure whatever like dollar spent is giving us
and our employees benefit.
Um, so I do a lot of just listening
and focus groups to really assess, hey, all these,
uh, benefits, which ones are sticky,
which ones are meaningful,
and then which ones aren't being leveraged so
that I can make room for new needs.
Um, so I do think, you know, post, um, COVID
and what, um, our global community went through
mental health support, um, you know, more support
with coaching our managers
because our managers are getting more
and more, uh, uh, complex questions being shared with them.
So I do think that, you know,
sometimes it's not just about like a financial merit,
but also how are we taking care
of the wellbeing of our employees?
So that I think has been, in my observation,
an increasing trend.
Yeah. And just to come back to you on that front,
what is your cadence for listening?
Is this like an annual type reevaluation?
Is it just constantly
and then when you do get to the point where you have
to renew or change certain benefits, you're just able
to take action on it.
Like what's kind of your approach
to listening and changing these things?
So we do, uh, pulsing and engagement survey.
So I think that's a really key time to see,
I read every comment, even if it's, you know, 2000 plus.
Um, but that is very revealing
because employees do share in that way.
So they're more formal mechanisms.
And then I do a lot of skip levels.
I, I, um, connect with all our employees.
And so I think that that's another way, um, just checking in
with folks, Hey, what are people needing?
What's the buzz? Um, so I think
that there's informal learning
and then there's formal engagement survey, um, type work.
And we also do like a more formal like benefits survey.
Um, so that really helps.
So I, I would say that the listening is continuous,
keeping a pulse on what our employees are going
through is continuous.
Um, but again, the way benefits are structured
and the process for us as HR leaders,
you can essentially make those tweaks once a year.
Yeah. So that's something I gotta like, again, prompt
to the, the community
and people who are listening into this, like,
what is your listening strategy?
Like, are these the type
of questions you're asking your people?
Are you actively listening when you're having these more
direct conversations with people and capturing that
and maybe logging these notes somewhere so
that you can refer back to them when you're making
these annual decisions?
I mean, these are all part of like, okay,
how do we keep refining our engagement strategy to be timely
with what is actually motivating our
people and where they are today?
Uh, you hit on a really interesting point too, of
how do we go beyond just maybe monetary perks
and start including certain things like coaching
and mentorship, and that's actually a motivating factor for,
uh, especially the frontline employee.
And, and Bella, I'd love to hear maybe your thoughts
to expand on that piece, especially coming from
a leadership development background and focus.
How have you seen maybe perks and benefits for the frontline
and where does leadership development fit into that?
Yeah, I would say that leadership development is such a,
um, an important and valuable opportunity.
And I wanna give a quick example of how
that shows up at Vail.
So, um, at Vail Resorts we have, um,
a frontline leadership development program
and it focuses on high potential talent.
But I still remember, um,
after the first year of doing the program,
somebody reached out to me, um, who had gone
through the program the previous year
and said, Hey, I wanna keep learning and growing.
And they were asking me, um, for resources.
They had already done a lot of content that was in the LMS,
they wanted to keep learning and growing.
So I would say, um,
investing in leadership development is a perk
and it can be as simple as providing a curated list
of resources, like something that I've done with ATDs,
look at their 70 20 10 model and give a list of examples.
So I don't think it has to, you know,
if you have a limited budget, I don't think it's something
that has to be a, a massive program,
but I do think it's important to invest in frontline leaders
because you have to remember that folks on the frontline,
these are people who regardless of education
or industry, have chosen to work at your
organization, right?
So it's like they're coming in with their own
experience and perspective.
So what's that differentiator like leadership development
you can offer to help them grow?
Um, I think it's a great perk
and I've, um, I think it, it really shows
what your learning culture is,
and that's something that's gonna look you unique from
company to company and that you can sell
as like a differentiator like bail's been doing.
I was gonna say like from a selling standpoint
to track this, this type of workforce,
that is a huge differentiator.
Like, and if you absolutely, if you don't train them,
they're gonna bring over a lot of their habits.
Yeah. And certain things from other frontline experiences
where they weren't invested into,
which you definitely don't want.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so it's obviously a performance tool,
but also from an engagement standpoint,
like you're going way above
and beyond if you're, if that's the type
of support you're providing.
Sarah, I'd love to hear some of your experiences on,
on the perks piece, especially
because when we were unpacking this a little bit,
you talked about how you had a very diverse
and young workforce mm-hmm.
As well. And we know we've seen tons of reports
and insights about Gen Z's kind of wave of change
or different types of motivations
and things that they look for from an employer,
especially beyond the paycheck.
Mm-hmm. Uh, can you talk to us about like the risks
or things you've seen on this side of things,
especially having this diverse
and in young workforce that you have?
For sure. So yes, our frontline team is our largest,
our youngest, our most racially diverse.
And to be totally honest, probably the most critical
to the running of our business.
You know, they are the first, uh, staff
that our members see every day when they check in.
Um, I would say for FFC, the best perk that we offer to all
of our employees is a club membership,
which is amazing for anyone.
And it's to all of our locations.
So for anyone's wellbeing, there's any number of hundreds
of classes a week that they, um, they can go to.
But for our frontline team, the lifespan
of those roles is usually about 18 months.
And so what we really try
to do is get our frontline team if they want to, and,
and they decide to educated in some form of a fitness realm.
So we actually have a very robust, what we call, excuse me,
SFC University.
And it is a massive curriculum of all kinds of things
and anyone is able to participate in it.
Almost all of it is completely free, with the exception
of these three nationally accredited programs for both, uh,
or for uh, personal training, for Pilates teacher training
and for yoga teacher training.
We offer that heavily discounted for our employees.
Um, and it's payroll deducted over time.
So they can still do their frontline role,
they can pay a little bit each paycheck towards the small
fee for the education.
And at the end of say six months,
they come out certified in some sort of fitness thing
that they like and they're almost doubling,
if not more than doubling their hourly
rate at the end of that.
So that's honestly for me, that was the most beautiful, uh,
recruiting tool and also development tool
for our current employees.
When I realized that this program that we have internally,
What I love about that is like, it almost sounds like
really those roles are almost like an accelerator
to the next stage in their growth in their career, right?
So mm-hmm. If we could frame up, it's like, yeah,
this is maybe a 12 to 18th month role typically,
but we also understand that
and we don't want you to be in this role
longer than 18 months.
Like, we want to accelerate you to
doubling your hourly rate into these potential areas, if
that would align
with your career aspirations and things like that as well.
Oh, and I just wanted to add something really quick.
I love that Sarah was saying, you know, offering something
that's unique to your organization,
like bail offers a free epic pass to all employees.
And I'm pretty sure that I would have to check,
but I'm pretty pretty sure
that includes our seasonal employees.
So it's like, what's that unique differentiator
for your organization that would
attract people to come work for you?
Like for Sarah's organization, folks
who are interested in fitness for Vail, it's folks
that are interested in the outdoors,
and that's kind of like what gets them into the
organization, then how do you keep them?
And it's finding out what are those unique perks that matter
to, um, folks in your industry.
I also say share, I know avail
and those groups also get family packs and day passes.
'cause I've used that from a few of the Vail employees
that I'm connected with here in Denver.
Uh, but I mean, okay,
hopefully I'm not getting anyone in trouble here, but No,
but, uh, I know that's a piece and I think that's great too.
It's like how can you extend the value
beyond just the person and to their family, their friends
and their outer community and circle like that.
Um, Sarah, did you have something you want
to expand on the accelerator piece?
I feel like there's also this powerful aspect
of positioning these roles as stepping stone opportunities
into bigger things and here's the path
and the things we're gonna give you
to get you to that next level.
Yeah, it's a huge tool for us
because number one, um, minimum wage,
just like many areas in the country is pretty high.
And what we learned through our community partners is that,
you know, the, even a dollar more an hour doesn't make up
for the opportunity of development
and the engagement piece for the employee.
So we really wanted to focus on that.
Um, and yes, like it is incredible to see,
and it happens often our employees who start
as a housekeeper or a front desk person or a spa reception
and they get any form of certification
and then they work for us, right?
And they immediately assuming
that they do well on their interviews and their practicals
and all of that, um, they get
to be promoted in a way into the fitness world.
And like Bella said, it, you know,
we naturally attract people
that are interested in fitness and wellbeing.
So it just seems like a natural progression to get them.
Um, and it's good for us
because they already know all
of the crazy systems that we have in place.
So it's one less computer program, uh,
to teach to the new employee.
So we love it, it's working.
Um, we just wanna get more people involved in it.
Yeah. Sjo, I'd love to hear your thoughts, uh,
back on like the younger workforce making its way in
and how that's maybe changing, uh, the motivations,
the perks, and the ways we we approach this.
Obviously listening at the foundation is part
of evolving it, but anything you're specifically seeing
with Gen Z and maybe how that's changing
how we view perks or what's most important?
Yeah, great question. Um, so as the new generations come,
one of the things, um, so deputy puts out a shift worker,
um, annual study.
So we really go into the needs, the mindsets, um,
of the frontline workforce.
And so one of the, um, key insights of previous, um, uh,
a a few of the, uh, studies is the need for flexibility.
So more and more folks want autonomy, they want control
of their schedule, and they want to feel in charge of their
kind of, you know, relationship with the work.
So they wanna be able to choose the
shift that works for them.
Uh, we are seeing kind of like multi, um, uh,
I think they, the term is like pre-employment.
So with shift work especially, they may be students
and working or they may be having two jobs
because of their passion,
and then there's something that helps pay the bills.
So I do think that that whole concept of shift work,
giving the workers autonomy, giving them a sense of control
is very, very important where they can, um, pick
and choose, uh, what works for their life.
Could we unpack that a little bit more?
And I'd love to open up the floor, Sarah
and Bella do you as well,
but maybe s kick us off about the flexibility piece.
I think when I hear that, uh, you know, everyone's desire
and flexibility, and I would even say
that's even from millennials and everyone, right?
Like I even desire that type of flexibility.
Uh, but we all know certain organizations
and operations, they're like, no,
we don't really have flexibility.
This is the shift. Like, we need this shift
and you need to be in person.
You gotta be here at, like, it's hard to envision
what flexibility could look like if that's the type
of operations we're supporting.
So are there certain ways
that you've seen flexibility show up when that's the type
of environment or some ideas our community could maybe think
about and still meet flexibility in that environment?
Yeah, so, you know, again, speaking from my experience,
I had to hire 1200, um, folks a month.
So when I had joined this company,
we couldn't hire even 200, uh,
frontline folks a, a month.
But we had an FTE model.
And so imagine like you're doing nine
to five sometimes weekends,
and I have to hire in 1200 of that.
So I think at that time I would've, and I did look, um,
but it was difficult to find a product
that could allow me to create that shift work.
And I really feel like if I had been able to,
it's just giving folks the optionality.
Like we cannot think of our workforce in a very static way.
Because again, there are supply challenges
and you have to think more creatively as HR leaders
because in the frontline work, it isn't, you know,
as you mentioned Zach, it's like an 18 month journey,
sometimes 24 months, and then folks are off to the next.
Um, so how are we allowing for that flexibility?
And you know, my goal again at that time was I wanted
to unleash kind of the, the working, uh, parent segment
because there are so many folks that would love
to work maybe nine to two when their kids are off,
and then, um, you know, be able to work.
But then, and, and, and it, those type
of solutions also build retention, right?
Because that's another thing, uh, that we all struggle
with is retention.
So how are we thinking of, and,
and especially, um, being a mother, you know,
if something works for professional
and personal balance, you're, you're more,
it's more retentive.
So my journey really showed me that I needed tools
and, and approaches where shift work can be possible
and I have to move away from like a five days a week,
maybe sometimes weekends
and overtime nine to five type of mindset.
And that really, um, is critical.
It's almost like a, a, a three, four years ago, even maybe
before CO okay, you could get away with it
in a post covid world.
I think it is just, if you don't have that agility as
for your workforce, you are making it very, very difficult.
Um, not only for our HR teams, but our managers
and then our employees.
Yeah. One, one strategy that I have seen work at, um,
in my experience is offering job rotations or job crafting.
So obviously you have the role that you're hired for,
but offering the opportunity to go
and shadow other departments
or, um, if somebody has, um, like their shift isn't as busy,
is there another way that they can chip in?
So I'm not, I don't know all the details about how bail does
that, but I, I do know that having some sort of, uh,
job crafting and ability to lean into different areas
is very valuable
because I think that also sets people up for career paths
where one season they do this
and then maybe they got a little exposure to retail,
so now they're exploring a retail path.
Um, so it really goes back to that core belief in autonomy
of like, let let people kind of choose their own path
and offer those job rotations, if
that's something your business model supports.
I just feel like this is such a tough thing
because I'm just imagining in my head, you know,
and it's something we're still trying to think about, like
how do you offer flexibility to someone who works in a club
and their shift is, you know, the same.
And so I think this is really valuable
because we know with everything that we've been told,
that flexibility is key for all employees,
not just the people who work in a corporate setting, nine
to five, et cetera.
Um, so I'm really interested to see how this progresses.
'cause it's definitely something we need to learn as well.
I mean, it's easier to be flexible in the corporate office
here versus in our 10 clubs
where there are very specific hours of opening
and closing. So
Yeah.
So how do you find that almost happy medium
of on one end there's stability here.
Like, you know, you have certain shifts throughout the week
that you're gonna get that guarantees maybe a certain set
of hours to ensure you're gonna meet certain levels
of compensation and pay
and that that's something people really look for.
Like, I need to make sure I'm on the schedule
so I could fulfill my bills, right?
But on the other end, can you open up the flexibility
for people to almost opt into certain shifts
and almost embrace somewhat
of like a gig project based like model
where I've seen this work really well,
especially in the healthcare industry.
I remember one of my friends, she's a nurse,
she opened up this app
and she's like, yeah, there's this shift I could
claim right now and it's actually doubled the compensation
because no one else has claimed it
and they need to fill this shift, right?
So it was kind of interesting to see that
where they almost had this like gig model where
they would post the shifts that they need to fill
and people could claim them based on if they wanted
to work that shift or not.
That's maybe that flexibility piece to give people ownership
of choosing which shifts and when,
but then they even incentivized it based on demand.
So if there's certain shifts that were like overnights,
people didn't wanna work, 'em, they're bad hours, typically
no one's claiming them or a day
or two away from that shift needed to be filled,
let's up the compensation for it,
incentivize someone to claim it, right?
So it kind of, it was like an interesting model there
to also, um, I don't know, provide flexibility
and incentivize the claiming of shifts
that are typically hard to fill.
Okay. So we have, uh, about eight minutes left here.
I'd love to kind of talk through maybe this final theme
with you all quickly, which is really the,
the connecting it all together.
Like how do we start to measure
and understand the ROI of this engagement?
How do we make sure that when we're building these
strategies, we're not framing it
and just like, Hey, it's a fuel good, we should do this
because that's what's right.
And we can actually position it as like,
this is a business imperative,
this is impacting the bottom line.
We should care about it as a leadership team.
Uh, would love to maybe hear some final thoughts on like the
business strategy, the ROI side of things so
that when we're going to market internally for this,
we can get the buy-in engagement from our,
from our leadership and especially the budget if we need
to invest in amazing tools like Deputy and things like that.
So, uh, Bella, can I go to you first?
Like what is like one metric
or business result you've seen really improve directly
or what are like some internal metrics
that you would really look at, um, when we're going to,
you know, do these things?
Yeah, I would say working in talent development,
there's a few different metrics.
So when I look at business outcomes,
I would say the ROI is immediately guest service.
And I was actually looking through our 10, um, VS 10 K
and I was like, how do we talk about this?
And it says, um,
investing in frontline leadership development has driven
strong staffing levels with high engagement
and season to season return rates.
So when you have happy, motivated
and um, invested in employees,
they provide a better experience to your guests.
Your guests wanna come back,
they rate their experience higher.
So I would say the business outcome is improved guest
service, which hopefully leads
to people returning to resorts.
And then from a talent development perspective,
it's looking at retention.
Do people come back every year?
Um, do the frontline employees come back every year?
Uh, so I think those are the two metrics that
that definitely come to mind of how do your
employee initiatives affect business outcomes
and vice versa, and can you actually show
that there's a relationship between two of them?
And I think that Vail have,
has definitely been intentional about
that since Covid and working on that.
So those are the ones that come to mind for me,
the guest service and then internally, um, internal mobility
and seeing, does offering leadership development have an
impact in people's day and they
still provide good guest service.
Yeah, especially if you have reoccurring like seasonal
rotational people that you don't need
to retrain every year onboard every year.
I mean, Sarah, you talked about that, right?
Like how valuable it is for people
to already know the systems, how things are done,
where things are like, that's invaluable for, for,
from a an investment standpoint.
So, uh, s Joel, anything on your end on like key metrics,
areas of impact that you're really looking at and tracking
and seeing impacted when doing these things?
Right. So,
Uh, Bella already covered some of the talent management,
uh, metrics that, um, make a case for retention.
Um, because again, there's a huge cost
of losing an employee.
Not only the investment you're making in hiring onboarding,
but the loss of productivity.
Uh, but also for our frontline workers
or shift workers, there is the wage in our implication.
And so the fees and the cost
or the risk that you incur in not having
that piece correct is huge.
And so right there, especially for a company
that has unfortunately suffered the fines, they know
what a clear ROI is.
But you know, as HR leaders,
how are we preventing our companies from getting there?
Um, so I do think leveraging the case studies
or the examples of
how risky these things can be from a litigation perspective,
um, and, and, and you know,
and foremost we want to pay our workers correctly.
So I think that, um, those aspects are also, so there's the,
the carrot side of things,
but then there's also a stick side
of things if things go wrong when it comes to our,
uh, hourly workers.
Yeah, and I think it's always the worst when you find out
these things are important because
things are going wrong, right?
Like then it's like, oh my gosh,
we gotta really get this together
because that, that hits big
and those are un uh, forecasted costs
and impacts that maybe derail the company from the progress
it was making in so many ways.
Right? Sarah? Yeah,
I'll make it quick. I
know we only have a few minutes left,
but I'll tell you we're on a two plus year journey
of a pilot project that we launched in, uh, 2023
through our community partners and all of that.
And it was incredible. But what I will tell you is
that though, how we were able
to get buy-in from our senior team is that we connected,
we kind of piggybacked on the strategic initiatives
of the company itself.
So one that particular year and still is now hospitality.
So we kind of piggybacked our need
to engage our frontline team
and, um, getting our department heads
trained better on that.
And that really helped us just scale right into not really
having to push too hard to get approval, which was great.
Um, but I will say the one thing that we looked at once,
our first part of our department heads training pilot per
program was complete is retention.
And so we targeted our frontline population in order to see
what the retention was like
before this pilot project and after.
And we were able to increase it
by 20% over the same measurement
period, which was incredible.
And then year over year it was 6% overall company why,
which just shows you like the, the key to connection, right?
And to all engagement, all of that ties into retention.
So anyway, that's what I have.
That's amazing. And I think you brought home a really
important point here as well of how these things are,
should be also connected to
strategic initiatives at the top, right?
Like this isn't just, hey, how do we save costs
and be more productive and engage people?
That's obviously a piece of this,
but can they also be directly connected to
a strategic initiative and objective at the very top
and ensure that no matter
what we're doing is also helping contribute to that, right?
Should be an alignment to those things.
So, okay, we have like one minute here.
Thank you so much for the three of you.
This has been amazing. I have a discussion.
I really appreciate us being able
to unpack these different elements of, of our, our
employee experience and how we can enable that.
Let's just do some closing thoughts here, especially
as we unpack a lot from performance coaching,
performance reviews, rewards
and rec, like all those different things.
What would be maybe your, your one action, like if you were
to go into your own department, back to your business
after this session, what would be the one action you would
take right away or you would take tomorrow?
And uh, yeah, Bella, I'll I'll pass it to you first.
Yeah, well, you know, it's gonna be related
to leadership development over here.
I would say look at what you're offering your managers.
Your managers are such a key part
of your employee experience for all levels of employees.
So figure out what do you have available
for your managers in terms of their development.
And then get curious about what, what's one
small affordable thing that you could try.
I love that Sarah mentioned pilot programs.
It doesn't have to be big, it could be one department,
but look at what you have available
and then see how you could expand
that just a little bit more.
Make it 10% better.
Love it. Thank you. Sarah,
what about you? Your one action?
Yes. So I have an assignment
for everyone on the call tomorrow.
We're gonna start your three by three approach.
I'm telling you, it will change your life.
So pick three people tomorrow and every day thereafter.
Check in with them three times tomorrow
and you'll see the connections grow over time.
I love that. Three by three.
All right, everyone, I wanna hear
about your three by threes.
Maybe check in with me, I might need it, but, uh, all right.
Sil, bring us home.
So I think, um, for me it's listening.
So not only listening to our employees,
but also our, our teams
and then listening to kind of the market dynamics
that are shaping our work and our workforce.
So again, it's like a three segment approach to listening.
And are we keeping at a pulse, not on
what we think is needed, but are we really listening
and crafting the journey for what our employees, our teams,
HR teams, and then also what is the market telling us?
Thank you. Well, that concludes everyone.
You got your three actions that you need to take
to your team or to your organization.
Listen, check in, co-create the strategies,
enable your people, and you'll get on the path, I think,
to this truly like enabled performative
culture for the frontline.
So let's give a round of applause to these three amazing
panelists and leaders for sharing their time
and perspectives with us.
Uh, thank you for everyone joining.
I know you all have crazy schedules as well,
so I applaud you for investing in your own growth
and development and,
and sharpening our craft in these areas.
It means the world to us at achieving engagement.
Otherwise, that concludes everything.
Connect with these leaders via LinkedIn if you wanna
ask 'em some more questions.
But, uh, appreciate everyone's time
and we'll see you at the next one.
Thanks everyone.

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